Nice video on wealth inequality in America
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05-03-2013, 06:22 PM
RE: Nice video on wealth inequality in America
"That should, to a person capable of proper inference, indicate that I could own things of which I do not claim ownership."

So, you can own things that you don't claim to own but you can't own your argument? Maybe I'm really as stupid as you claim but it seems to me that one can own something without maintaining exclusive possession of that thing. For instance, intellectual property. A band owns its songs but you can also own a copy of its songs without affecting its ownership. You can even change the words of the song and you still won't change the that which they own.

In any event, you claimed that property rights were invalid. So, given that you've made that claim, are you prepared to elaborate? Do you own your body? Do you own your intellectual property? Do you own your car? If you claim ownership of any of these things while at the same time claiming that property rights are invalid, you should be able to delineate your position.

Above you will notice that I responded to a point you attempted to make. This means that I read your words, formulated an argument against them and then put that argument into words. Normally, the next thing to happen would be that you would read the words I wrote, formulate an argument that addresses the words I wrote (not my level of education or how ugly I am) and then you would put that argument to words and send it back to me. If we can accomplish that level of intercourse, we can call ourselves having a debate. If not, you can spew hate at me once more before I leave this conversation.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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05-03-2013, 06:45 PM
RE: Nice video on wealth inequality in America
The 99% squabble and the 1% looks on amused. Everything is going according to plan.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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05-03-2013, 08:25 PM
RE: Nice video on wealth inequality in America
(05-03-2013 10:04 AM)Elesjei Wrote:  I don't believe wealth inequality is the problem. If the "poor" could live comfortable lives with financial security, and the middle class could afford lots of luxuries, who cares if the rich make ten million times the income of the average Joe? It would be unfair, but nobody would be held down by their financial situation.

The problem is that the rising cost of living is outpacing the rise in income for most people. Average income has stayed about the same for the past few decades, while home prices, car prices, food, and everything else has increased in price dramatically. Where I live, for example, average home prices have quadrupled in 30 years, while average income has increased by $3000. Having two sources of income is now mandatory for anyone looking to buy a house - only married couples need apply.

The difference between income and cost of living is what raises living standards. When income growth outpaces the costs, as it did until the late 70s, the baseline improves. What used to be middle-class standards would then be considered poor. Poverty would no longer mean hungry, homeless people, lower class would no longer mean someone who couldn't afford any luxuries. That has stopped. Income growth has stagnated since the 80s, while costs have soared. Instead of everyone getting wealthier and the baseline rising, most people are becoming poorer. In my city, earning $40k used to mean you could afford a nice house. These days it means you need a working partner to afford the cheapest house available.

If the "poor" could afford houses, everyone would be happy. But the situation that allowed for that to happen has changed.

$10/hour minimum wage is too low. It isn't even a living wage, and some people have the nerve to tell us that they can't afford to pay more? The simple fact is, businesses can afford to pay us more. But they choose not to, because they prefer to spend money on marketing, investment, and executive pay. The richest people increase their wealth dramatically at the expense of the average worker. CEOs get annual bonuses equal to the combined pay cheques of everyone beneath the franchise operators. If many corporations cut their annual bonuses, they could afford to more than double their workforces.

I'm fine with a CEO making several trillion dollars a year, as long as those trillions come to him after we all get paid what we need.
Fuck me, are my eyes decieving me?
Someone in a 1%v99% thread who actually gets it rather then just wanting to throw stones at the 1%??

WTF is in this energy drink? Dodgy



They did a study with two people to show people's behavior. It applies perfectly for this situation.
Two people, complete strangers, were put in a room.
There was $10 on the table.
The $10 would be divided between the two people.
Each person had two options after the money was divided. They could accept or they could decline. If they declined then both people got nothing.
They started with a 50|50 split, $5 each. Everyone tested accepted.
They then went to the extremes, one person got $1 and the other got $9.
The vast majority (like 95% or something crazy high like that) of those that got $1 declined.

They would rather give up their $1 to see that the other person didn't get $9 despite the fact that $1 is still $1 MORE then what they originally had.

It's human nature.

I ask people who complain about the 1% one thing:
What about those people who YOU are better off then? Are you redistributing your wealth to feed the starving children in Africa? And I don't mean you give $20 a month to charity, because billionaires donate tons of money to charity (Gates has donated 30billion). I'm talking about what you are asking of the 1%, total redistribution.

People wouldn't sell their 4bedroom, 2bathroom house and move into a tent so a family of 8 living in a bombed out 1mX1m room could have a slightly bigger room.
Yet they expect rich people to do exactly that to them.

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05-03-2013, 08:53 PM
RE: Nice video on wealth inequality in America
Strangely, TheAmazingAtheist just put out this video just yesterday talking about the OP video.




"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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05-03-2013, 10:36 PM
RE: Nice video on wealth inequality in America
(05-03-2013 10:04 AM)Elesjei Wrote:  I'm fine with a CEO making several trillion dollars a year, as long as those trillions come to him after we all get paid what we need.
WE?

Who the ferk is we?
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05-03-2013, 10:45 PM
RE: Nice video on wealth inequality in America
(05-03-2013 08:53 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Strangely, TheAmazingAtheist just put out this video just yesterday talking about the OP video.



LOL. Corp-a-ations are bad! They are greedy,capitalists who are squeezing the common man dry and enslaving them! Something,something,something,Hey bro, buy my book. Laughat Big Grin Thumbsup
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06-03-2013, 09:07 AM
RE: Nice video on wealth inequality in America
(05-03-2013 10:45 PM)TheBlackKnight Wrote:  
(05-03-2013 08:53 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Strangely, TheAmazingAtheist just put out this video just yesterday talking about the OP video.



LOL. Corp-a-ations are bad! They are greedy,capitalists who are squeezing the common man dry and enslaving them! Something,something,something,Hey bro, buy my book. Laughat Big Grin Thumbsup
Yeah...and I guess you are one of those self-made "Rich" who prove that the poor people are a bunch of lazy whiners? I meet people with your attitude all the time. And funny thing is, none that I've met are wealthy...they must work everyday to pay-off the stuff they financed or lose it all. Hell...they are worse off than poor...they are debt slaves with negative net equity.
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06-03-2013, 09:51 AM
RE: Nice video on wealth inequality in America
(06-03-2013 09:07 AM)Julius Wrote:  
(05-03-2013 10:45 PM)TheBlackKnight Wrote:  LOL. Corp-a-ations are bad! They are greedy,capitalists who are squeezing the common man dry and enslaving them! Something,something,something,Hey bro, buy my book. Laughat Big Grin Thumbsup
Yeah...and I guess you are one of those self-made "Rich" who prove that the poor people are a bunch of lazy whiners? I meet people with your attitude all the time. And funny thing is, none that I've met are wealthy...they must work everyday to pay-off the stuff they financed or lose it all. Hell...they are worse off than poor...they are debt slaves with negative net equity.
No, you got 1/3 of that correct,but missed the point. He's rambling about those rich meanies, and then tries to sell you his personalized book for 50$ but not really because he has a sweet promo code.

But whiners? YES. All of a sudden, paying off a house and property(land) is now enslavement? Quit crying
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06-03-2013, 09:59 AM
RE: Nice video on wealth inequality in America
Quote:No, you got 1/3 of that correct,but missed the point. He's rambling about those rich meanies, and then tries to sell you his personalized book for 50$ but not really because he has a sweet promo code.
So what? He needs to make money like most everyone else and you can choose to buy the book, or not.

Unlike the 1% who rig the game via government regulation so that you have no choice.
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06-03-2013, 01:30 PM
RE: Nice video on wealth inequality in America
(05-03-2013 06:22 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  "That should, to a person capable of proper inference, indicate that I could own things of which I do not claim ownership."

So, you can own things that you don't claim to own but you can't own your argument? Maybe I'm really as stupid as you claim but it seems to me that one can own something without maintaining exclusive possession of that thing. For instance, intellectual property. A band owns its songs but you can also own a copy of its songs without affecting its ownership. You can even change the words of the song and you still won't change the that which they own.

In any event, you claimed that property rights were invalid. So, given that you've made that claim, are you prepared to elaborate? Do you own your body? Do you own your intellectual property? Do you own your car? If you claim ownership of any of these things while at the same time claiming that property rights are invalid, you should be able to delineate your position.

Above you will notice that I responded to a point you attempted to make. This means that I read your words, formulated an argument against them and then put that argument into words. Normally, the next thing to happen would be that you would read the words I wrote, formulate an argument that addresses the words I wrote (not my level of education or how ugly I am) and then you would put that argument to words and send it back to me. If we can accomplish that level of intercourse, we can call ourselves having a debate. If not, you can spew hate at me once more before I leave this conversation.

Moving in the right direction, but I've already addressed that.

I did say that I didn't claim ownership of my arguments; I could own them, but that's not determined by me, alone, and I don't claim them regardless. If I did own them, it would be determined by some type of intellectual, patent, copyright laws, but I'd still imagine, like with copyrighting music, I'd actually have to claim ownership of them and take action against some person for infringing, which I wouldn't do, but then justice would still have to carry through. I wouldn't even copyright, let alone give a shit if some other person used my expressed ideas.

Actually I might decide to claim ownership to that type of stuff, if I needed to in order to ensure my own survival in a capitalistic system-- major problem with capitalism. I have yet to come to that road, so I really don't know if I'm corruptible. I'd assume that I'd likely break, because a lot of people do, if some person gave my a book deal or a record deal or flashed money for some type of idea for a product.

Any other ownership, of any thing, up to and including your own body (e.g. slavery) is determined by society. It's the exact same deal. People make laws and/or hold certain ideas, and then act accordingly. You can claim ownership of a house, or your own body, until some person, or a group of people, disagree, then they can kill you, or enslave you, and claim that ownership for themselves; or you can kill them and re-claim that ownership. Ownership, and rights, are just made up ideas/concepts. In social contract, it's usually just a good idea for a large group of people to agree to certain ideas (usually written laws), based on other people agreeing to them as well. It would be sort of unfortunate, and a bloody mess, to continually fight each other for resources, and it's easier to just form a social contract, make laws, and agree to certain "rights", ownership being one. It would be especially shitty, to also have to explain to people why they shouldn't take things that I have available, or made available, for my access or that I possess.

I posted about that in the other thread: You have no rights.

George Carlin actually explains it pretty well.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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