Nick Seldon - A Quotation
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04-09-2015, 01:53 PM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(04-09-2015 01:41 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(28-08-2015 06:02 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  so talk to a fictional character isn't of talking to some stranger who prefers to create a persona based off of a group entity? I'd rather not spend time trying to talk to a star trek character thank you.

And if you'd rather just say something without support than actually support a claim. you don't have any perception of honest to the claim. Maybe you could learn a thing about seeking the academic method or journalistic method of making claims and your issue wouldn't exist anymore.

I know atheists adore the academic method, but this is not a formal debate site. Moreover, there are neither academic claims proving the existence of god and miracles nor academic claims disproving the existence of god and miracles, so if you are a strict academic, you have no business at an atheist website IMHO.

I would say to lean more to the opposite. If this was a mere random other forum I'd agree to you. But being a skeptical based atheist forum, I would say you have no business being serious here if you want to dismiss academic processes and the scientific methods.

And that clearly is reflected here. If you actually respect those methods to at least some lining of degree, you'll far more likely to be valued as a poster but if you don't. You just look like a joke, why do you even want to attempt to continue on when your mentality is in pure contrast to anything showing you can be accountable.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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04-09-2015, 02:03 PM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(04-09-2015 01:37 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Yes, our feelings are neither mystical nor transcendent nor magical, however, love, hate, empathy, etc. still defy the making of empirical measurements. Nor can brain chemistry and neurology sufficiently explain why ten people will make ten different emotional states responding to the same stimuli.

Yes, it can. It does, in fact.

No two people have identical brains.

(04-09-2015 01:37 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Again, empiricism sounds VERY rational, but works very poorly in vital human relationships.

You can say that, but saying it doesn't make it true.

(04-09-2015 01:38 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If you are that unaware of the lack of efficacy of such pills

I suffer from clinical depression. I take such pills. They work.

What is true is that not every pill works equally well for every patient, because brain chemistry is a delicate thing and depression, bipolar disorder, and so on have many different potential neurochemical causes.

(04-09-2015 01:38 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  the total horror of side effects

Which is irrelevant to whether or not the pills can affect mood.

(04-09-2015 01:38 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  the mass movement to use alternative (natural, created, god-made) treatments for all these disorders...

Ah, so medicine can alter mood.

(04-09-2015 01:38 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Please continue to try to address me on factual bases rather than demonizing my positions.

...he said, as he claimed that loveless marriages are beneficial to children, emotions cannot be manipulated by medical means, and "alternative" medical treatments for depression are a "mass movement".

One of us is speaking from a factual basis.

It is not you.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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04-09-2015, 02:30 PM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(04-09-2015 01:43 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(28-08-2015 11:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  "the depths of the depravity of those who oppose the gospel" Seriously? Oppose the gospel? Rejection of myth is not opposition.

You are a self-satisfied, sanctimonious asshole. You have no capacity to understand anything but your unsupported, delusional beliefs.
You view others through a warped lens of fantasy and lack any true empathy. You do not deserve any respect here as you have flung
block-headed judgments and insults that demonstrate your inability to understand fact, reason, or critical thinking.

You accomplish nothing here except to display the damage that religious belief does to people.

Based on your posts, you offer little of substantive value other than one-liners to mock my views and those of your fellow atheists, too. I would call pot and kettle here. You are even unable to confine your remarks to those that people would use in polite society. I bet you cannot go one month without using curse words at TTA.

Can you do so?

Ah, concern trolling.

So much easier than an actual response.

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04-09-2015, 02:45 PM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(04-09-2015 01:43 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(28-08-2015 11:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  "the depths of the depravity of those who oppose the gospel" Seriously? Oppose the gospel? Rejection of myth is not opposition.

You are a self-satisfied, sanctimonious asshole. You have no capacity to understand anything but your unsupported, delusional beliefs.
You view others through a warped lens of fantasy and lack any true empathy. You do not deserve any respect here as you have flung
block-headed judgments and insults that demonstrate your inability to understand fact, reason, or critical thinking.

You accomplish nothing here except to display the damage that religious belief does to people.

Based on your posts, you offer little of substantive value other than one-liners to mock my views and those of your fellow atheists, too. I would call pot and kettle here. You are even unable to confine your remarks to those that people would use in polite society. I bet you cannot go one month without using curse words at TTA.

Can you do so?

I don't give a rat's ass for your opinion. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-09-2015, 03:54 PM (This post was last modified: 04-09-2015 04:21 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(04-09-2015 01:38 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If you are that unaware of the lack of efficacy of such pills, ...

I personally am well aware of the efficacy of such pills. I seriously doubt you have a fucking clue.

(04-09-2015 01:38 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  One can pop a pill to get an erection, but not to create love or 1,000 other vital states of being.

Stated by someone who clearly has never experienced MDMA or other empathogenics. You don't actually bother to do any research before revealing your ignorance, do you?

#sigh
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04-09-2015, 03:57 PM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(04-09-2015 01:41 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(28-08-2015 06:02 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  And if you'd rather just say something without support than actually support a claim. you don't have any perception of honest to the claim. Maybe you could learn a thing about seeking the academic method or journalistic method of making claims and your issue wouldn't exist anymore.

I know atheists adore the academic method, but this is not a formal debate site. Moreover, there are neither academic claims proving the existence of god and miracles nor academic claims disproving the existence of god and miracles, so if you are a strict academic, you have no business at an atheist website IMHO.

Not only can he tell who's going to heaven and who's going to hell, he can also tell whether or not you should be on an atheist forum. He truly is a magic man.

#sigh
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04-09-2015, 04:20 PM (This post was last modified: 04-09-2015 04:24 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(04-09-2015 02:03 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  I suffer from clinical depression. I take such pills. They work.

What is true is that not every pill works equally well for every patient, because brain chemistry is a delicate thing and depression, bipolar disorder, and so on have many different potential neurochemical causes.

Me too. The main limitations the shamans have is that they don't yet have sufficient diagnostic tools. Blood tests can't tell the neurotransmitter levels once they've passed the blood/brain barrier. But they're close to having those diagnostics tools which will revolutionalize their treatment approach

(04-09-2015 02:03 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(04-09-2015 01:38 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Please continue to try to address me on factual bases rather than demonizing my positions.

...he said, as he claimed that loveless marriages are beneficial to children, emotions cannot be manipulated by medical means, and "alternative" medical treatments for depression are a "mass movement".

He really doesn't care if he's exposed as an idiot. It's actually quite impressive. Won't get him far though.

(04-09-2015 02:03 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  One of us is speaking from a factual basis.

It is not you.

To be fair to him, he really doesn't understand what a "fact" is.

#sigh
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04-09-2015, 04:36 PM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(04-09-2015 04:20 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Me too. The main limitations the shamans have is that they don't yet have sufficient diagnostic tools. Blood tests can't tell the neurotransmitter levels once they've passed the blood/brain barrier. But they're close to having those diagnostics tools which will revolutionalize their treatment approach

Quite. In fact, just recently I took a genetic test which revealed that the reason certain pills are less effective for me is that I lack a certain gene which enables my liver to deal with a specific chemical. This both results in my depression and makes it so that pills which make use of that chemical are less likely to have an effect.

The study of neurochemistry and its effects on the human brain is a fascinating subject. It's a shame that Q doesn't seem to care about it.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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09-09-2015, 12:18 PM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(04-09-2015 01:53 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(04-09-2015 01:41 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I know atheists adore the academic method, but this is not a formal debate site. Moreover, there are neither academic claims proving the existence of god and miracles nor academic claims disproving the existence of god and miracles, so if you are a strict academic, you have no business at an atheist website IMHO.

I would say to lean more to the opposite. If this was a mere random other forum I'd agree to you. But being a skeptical based atheist forum, I would say you have no business being serious here if you want to dismiss academic processes and the scientific methods.

And that clearly is reflected here. If you actually respect those methods to at least some lining of degree, you'll far more likely to be valued as a poster but if you don't. You just look like a joke, why do you even want to attempt to continue on when your mentality is in pure contrast to anything showing you can be accountable.

CL,

I hear what you're saying loud and clear. However, looking at peer-reviewed research, we will find neither support for miracles nor denial of miracles, metaphysics and the rest. Science doesn't go there.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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09-09-2015, 12:21 PM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(04-09-2015 04:36 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(04-09-2015 04:20 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Me too. The main limitations the shamans have is that they don't yet have sufficient diagnostic tools. Blood tests can't tell the neurotransmitter levels once they've passed the blood/brain barrier. But they're close to having those diagnostics tools which will revolutionalize their treatment approach

Quite. In fact, just recently I took a genetic test which revealed that the reason certain pills are less effective for me is that I lack a certain gene which enables my liver to deal with a specific chemical. This both results in my depression and makes it so that pills which make use of that chemical are less likely to have an effect.

The study of neurochemistry and its effects on the human brain is a fascinating subject. It's a shame that Q doesn't seem to care about it.

It is a fascinating subject. Yes. However, it has its limitations. You simply cannot predict all outcomes for all human subjects in any given scenario, ever. You can look to certain group dynamics, where people fall on a bell curve, leaders and followers, but you cannot (yet) use neuroscience to predict who will be Hitler or a pope or an atheist.

Here it comes--give me the "science of the gaps" argument about "we don't know how yet, but someday we will". Returning to our subject, love and relationships are not best made in a laboratory.

PS. Drugs alter mood by and large by blocking neurochemicals, not by altering our mood at its source.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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