Nick Seldon - A Quotation
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22-09-2015, 10:01 AM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(22-09-2015 09:59 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(21-09-2015 09:32 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  How can you possibly separate the effect of "Jesus" from something like confirmation bias? Your brain is set up in such a way that every time you convince yourself you are right, it releases happy drugs. This is something we know and can measure. There is nothing indicating the existence of Jesus, let alone him having any kind of tangible effect on the really real world.

How can you possibly separate the effect of only believing in empirical evidence, and then using only empirical evidence to verify the absolute truth of empiricism, from confirmatory bias? Again, Robby, be consistent.

By not proclaiming to have an absolute truth out of it... but as close to as consistent, objective, absolute, as possible. But not proclaiming it IS and it is certain unwaveringly so.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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22-09-2015, 10:20 AM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(22-09-2015 09:59 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  How can you possibly separate the effect of only believing in empirical evidence, and then using only empirical evidence to verify the absolute truth of empiricism, from confirmatory bias?

The same way that you can tell the difference between the right answer to a math problem and the wrong answer to a math problem.

Logic has clearly defined rules.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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22-09-2015, 11:12 AM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(22-09-2015 09:59 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(21-09-2015 09:32 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  How can you possibly separate the effect of "Jesus" from something like confirmation bias? Your brain is set up in such a way that every time you convince yourself you are right, it releases happy drugs. This is something we know and can measure. There is nothing indicating the existence of Jesus, let alone him having any kind of tangible effect on the really real world.

How can you possibly separate the effect of only believing in empirical evidence, and then using only empirical evidence to verify the absolute truth of empiricism, from confirmatory bias? Again, Robby, be consistent.

So, you're saying we need to take every correlation between one real, measurable thing and another nonfalsifiable thing seriously?

If so, what the fuck? How would we ever accomplish anything or be able to make any meaningful inferences about the world?

If not, what the fuck? That's just special pleading.
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22-09-2015, 02:32 PM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(22-09-2015 09:58 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(18-09-2015 02:57 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  This is a good example of one of the dangers of religion; substituting real help for people with praying to Jesus.

I have over 20 years experience as a doctor, with a particular interest in helping people with serious mental issues. If I prayed with my patients, I would soon get a reputation as being incompetent and would have my licence to practise medicine suspended.

Religion is more often one of the causes of mental illness, not the solution for it.

Religion poisons everything.

How do your Christian patients respond to your advice not to pray to get well because praying to get well "poisons everything"?

I don't advise them not to pray. The topic of prayer rarely comes up. If they do mention prayer they get a smile from me, but I concentrate on what is actually going to help them.

I do not tell my religious patients that religion poisons everything, despite the fact I believe that to be so. They have come to me for medical advice, and I know I can't change someone's mind after years of brainwashing. The doctor/patient consultation is not the right time to talk about religion.
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22-09-2015, 05:00 PM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(22-09-2015 02:32 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  They have come to me for medical advice, and I know I can't change someone's mind after years of brainwashing. The doctor/patient consultation is not the right time to talk about religion.

As a physician, what do you do if they bring it up? First do no harm and whatnot.

#sigh
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22-09-2015, 09:50 PM (This post was last modified: 22-09-2015 10:03 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(22-09-2015 05:00 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(22-09-2015 02:32 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  They have come to me for medical advice, and I know I can't change someone's mind after years of brainwashing. The doctor/patient consultation is not the right time to talk about religion.

As a physician, what do you do if they bring it up? First do no harm and whatnot.

Very rarely, someone who is feeling warm fuzzies towards me will bring up Jeebus because they want me to share the good vibes. I recognise that these people are only trying to be warm.....that they want to give me something back. I treat them gently, acknowledge that I understand that Jeebus is important for them, yet tell them that Jeebus ain't important for me....that he never was and he never will be. I haven't lost any patients by doing this.

Here, on TTA forum, it's a different kettle of fish. It's war against the theists... particularly the really stupid, opinionated, bigots like Q. Big Grin

PS Nearly all my patients who find out I'm an atheist really like me for it...even the god botherers. This is particularly true for the very elderly...it's because their life experiences have revealed religion to be bullshit...and they know it.

PPS I have an elderly ex catholic nun patient. Nowadays she's full of zest...she wears purple glasses, red lipstick and high heels. She's read my book... twice...and loves it.
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23-09-2015, 07:30 AM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(22-09-2015 09:50 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  PS Nearly all my patients who find out I'm an atheist really like me for it...even the god botherers. This is particularly true for the very elderly...it's because their life experiences have revealed religion to be bullshit...and they know it.

PPS I have an elderly ex catholic nun patient. Nowadays she's full of zest...she wears purple glasses, red lipstick and high heels. She's read my book... twice...and loves it.

Do you think this is because deep down in some dark recesses of their mind, they know who is really helping them?

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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23-09-2015, 02:38 PM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(23-09-2015 07:30 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(22-09-2015 09:50 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  PS Nearly all my patients who find out I'm an atheist really like me for it...even the god botherers. This is particularly true for the very elderly...it's because their life experiences have revealed religion to be bullshit...and they know it.

PPS I have an elderly ex catholic nun patient. Nowadays she's full of zest...she wears purple glasses, red lipstick and high heels. She's read my book... twice...and loves it.

Do you think this is because deep down in some dark recesses of their mind, they know who is really helping them?

Yes, of course. I like to think they are very aware of my genuine empathy and my skills. They are pleased I use rational thinking to help them. I have no Christian patients who want me to pray for them or with them. They can get that elsewhere.
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24-09-2015, 01:15 PM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(22-09-2015 10:01 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(22-09-2015 09:59 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  How can you possibly separate the effect of only believing in empirical evidence, and then using only empirical evidence to verify the absolute truth of empiricism, from confirmatory bias? Again, Robby, be consistent.

By not proclaiming to have an absolute truth out of it... but as close to as consistent, objective, absolute, as possible. But not proclaiming it IS and it is certain unwaveringly so.

Sure, because atheists do not believe in absolute truths, but the argument is still circular, "beyond most reasonable doubts, we know empiricism is true, using empirical tools and empirical observations".

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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24-09-2015, 01:16 PM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(22-09-2015 10:20 AM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(22-09-2015 09:59 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  How can you possibly separate the effect of only believing in empirical evidence, and then using only empirical evidence to verify the absolute truth of empiricism, from confirmatory bias?

The same way that you can tell the difference between the right answer to a math problem and the wrong answer to a math problem.

Logic has clearly defined rules.

Which rules derive from absolutes of logic--there are absolutes that exist. Which rules you are taking as "natural laws" and which the existence of you are taking for granted via empirical observation, again.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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