Nick Seldon - A Quotation
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24-09-2015, 01:19 PM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(22-09-2015 11:12 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(22-09-2015 09:59 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  How can you possibly separate the effect of only believing in empirical evidence, and then using only empirical evidence to verify the absolute truth of empiricism, from confirmatory bias? Again, Robby, be consistent.

So, you're saying we need to take every correlation between one real, measurable thing and another nonfalsifiable thing seriously?

If so, what the fuck? How would we ever accomplish anything or be able to make any meaningful inferences about the world?

If not, what the fuck? That's just special pleading.

No, special pleading is avoiding the reality that tremendous advances in sciences and the arts came from intuitive leaps--and via revelation.

We may make meaningful inferences about the world starting from assumptions as you wrote, but don't assume that all non-metaphysical assumptions are right and metaphysical assumptions are wrong. Because that is the very bias I'm speaking of.

I'm not questioning the value of empirical observation as you seem to think. I'm questioning your circular notion of verifying the empirical nature of everything and all things via starting with presuppositions regarding empiricism.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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24-09-2015, 01:23 PM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(22-09-2015 09:50 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(22-09-2015 05:00 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  As a physician, what do you do if they bring it up? First do no harm and whatnot.

Very rarely, someone who is feeling warm fuzzies towards me will bring up Jeebus because they want me to share the good vibes. I recognise that these people are only trying to be warm.....that they want to give me something back. I treat them gently, acknowledge that I understand that Jeebus is important for them, yet tell them that Jeebus ain't important for me....that he never was and he never will be. I haven't lost any patients by doing this.

Here, on TTA forum, it's a different kettle of fish. It's war against the theists... particularly the really stupid, opinionated, bigots like Q. Big Grin

PS Nearly all my patients who find out I'm an atheist really like me for it...even the god botherers. This is particularly true for the very elderly...it's because their life experiences have revealed religion to be bullshit...and they know it.

PPS I have an elderly ex catholic nun patient. Nowadays she's full of zest...she wears purple glasses, red lipstick and high heels. She's read my book... twice...and loves it.

Are you suggesting we take your anecdotal "like attracts like" experiences and say they are smoking gun proof against all religion and all religions?

If I talked with your friend the nun, I'd be happy both to decimate Catholic nonsense and atheist nonsense in an effort to help! Or is that "nunsense"?

Mark, the chapter I've read in your book show a lot of rhetoric without substance. I'm not looking to anger you or goad you or make you feel defensive. But I'm asking you to toothcomb your own work so that we can talk about its gist, its facts. Every time you take one Bible verse way out of context to make sweeping statements like "Paul was a so-and-so hateful bigot" and so on you are only widening the rift between our camps.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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24-09-2015, 01:35 PM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(24-09-2015 01:16 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Which rules derive from absolutes of logic--there are absolutes that exist. Which rules you are taking as "natural laws" and which the existence of you are taking for granted via empirical observation, again.

This does not parse. You may want to revise your punctuation.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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24-09-2015, 02:12 PM (This post was last modified: 24-09-2015 02:18 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(24-09-2015 01:23 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(22-09-2015 09:50 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Very rarely, someone who is feeling warm fuzzies towards me will bring up Jeebus because they want me to share the good vibes. I recognise that these people are only trying to be warm.....that they want to give me something back. I treat them gently, acknowledge that I understand that Jeebus is important for them, yet tell them that Jeebus ain't important for me....that he never was and he never will be. I haven't lost any patients by doing this.

Here, on TTA forum, it's a different kettle of fish. It's war against the theists... particularly the really stupid, opinionated, bigots like Q. Big Grin

PS Nearly all my patients who find out I'm an atheist really like me for it...even the god botherers. This is particularly true for the very elderly...it's because their life experiences have revealed religion to be bullshit...and they know it.

PPS I have an elderly ex catholic nun patient. Nowadays she's full of zest...she wears purple glasses, red lipstick and high heels. She's read my book... twice...and loves it.

Are you suggesting we take your anecdotal "like attracts like" experiences and say they are smoking gun proof against all religion and all religions?

If I talked with your friend the nun, I'd be happy both to decimate Catholic nonsense and atheist nonsense in an effort to help! Or is that "nunsense"?

Mark, the chapter I've read in your book show a lot of rhetoric without substance. I'm not looking to anger you or goad you or make you feel defensive. But I'm asking you to toothcomb your own work so that we can talk about its gist, its facts. Every time you take one Bible verse way out of context to make sweeping statements like "Paul was a so-and-so hateful bigot" and so on you are only widening the rift between our camps.

"Are you suggesting we take your anecdotal "like attracts like" experiences and say they are smoking gun proof against all religion and all religions?"

No. I was discussing the topic of religion in the context of my doctor/patient relationships.

"Mark, the chapter I've read in your book show a lot of rhetoric without substance."

Blah blah blah. I doubt you've read the chapter. It's too long for you. You haven't explored the links. If you would care to debate the topic of "Paul" with me, you know where the boxing ring is.

"I'm not looking to anger you or goad you or make you feel defensive."

I don't care what you imagine the effect your words might have on me are.

"...you are only widening the rift between our camps."

Too right. Your "camp" is a cancer on the world.
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24-09-2015, 02:16 PM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(24-09-2015 01:35 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 01:16 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Which rules derive from absolutes of logic--there are absolutes that exist. Which rules you are taking as "natural laws" and which the existence of you are taking for granted via empirical observation, again.

This does not parse. You may want to revise your punctuation.

He is either too uneducated to use correct grammar, or doesn't care enough about what he writes to express himself properly.
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24-09-2015, 04:33 PM (This post was last modified: 24-09-2015 04:42 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(24-09-2015 01:16 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Which rules derive from absolutes of logic--there are absolutes that exist.

Please tell me more about these logical absolutes of which you speak. I've had a shitload of formal education in logic and have yet to see one. Are they like Bigfoot?

#sigh
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24-09-2015, 07:38 PM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(24-09-2015 01:19 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm not questioning the value of empirical observation as you seem to think. I'm questioning your circular notion of verifying the empirical nature of everything and all things via starting with presuppositions regarding empiricism.

I'm not saying there's nothing metaphysical. The problem is, until we have any evidence of it, there's no way to differentiate your God from another, leprechauns, or a schizophrenic person's delusions.

Circular or not, it's the only reliable thing we have. I'll bet you don't consider this materialist bias a bad thing when you look both ways before crossing a street.

This rhetoric is something various pushers of woo use when they can't back their claims. It's not new or compelling.
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25-09-2015, 08:46 AM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(24-09-2015 02:12 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 01:23 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Are you suggesting we take your anecdotal "like attracts like" experiences and say they are smoking gun proof against all religion and all religions?

If I talked with your friend the nun, I'd be happy both to decimate Catholic nonsense and atheist nonsense in an effort to help! Or is that "nunsense"?

Mark, the chapter I've read in your book show a lot of rhetoric without substance. I'm not looking to anger you or goad you or make you feel defensive. But I'm asking you to toothcomb your own work so that we can talk about its gist, its facts. Every time you take one Bible verse way out of context to make sweeping statements like "Paul was a so-and-so hateful bigot" and so on you are only widening the rift between our camps.

"Are you suggesting we take your anecdotal "like attracts like" experiences and say they are smoking gun proof against all religion and all religions?"

No. I was discussing the topic of religion in the context of my doctor/patient relationships.

"Mark, the chapter I've read in your book show a lot of rhetoric without substance."

Blah blah blah. I doubt you've read the chapter. It's too long for you. You haven't explored the links. If you would care to debate the topic of "Paul" with me, you know where the boxing ring is.

"I'm not looking to anger you or goad you or make you feel defensive."

I don't care what you imagine the effect your words might have on me are.

"...you are only widening the rift between our camps."

Too right. Your "camp" is a cancer on the world.

To date, per your request, I've offered five or six debate resolutions, all of which you refused.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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25-09-2015, 08:47 AM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
(24-09-2015 07:38 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 01:19 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm not questioning the value of empirical observation as you seem to think. I'm questioning your circular notion of verifying the empirical nature of everything and all things via starting with presuppositions regarding empiricism.

I'm not saying there's nothing metaphysical. The problem is, until we have any evidence of it, there's no way to differentiate your God from another, leprechauns, or a schizophrenic person's delusions.

Circular or not, it's the only reliable thing we have. I'll bet you don't consider this materialist bias a bad thing when you look both ways before crossing a street.

This rhetoric is something various pushers of woo use when they can't back their claims. It's not new or compelling.

Okay--what metaphysical things do you believe exist currently, please?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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25-09-2015, 12:47 PM
RE: Nick Seldon - A Quotation
None.
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