No Gender December: Does it even matter?
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21-12-2016, 05:12 AM
Sad No Gender December: Does it even matter?
Here in Australia, certain elements of our community are promoting a campaign called "No Gender December" which promotes the gifting of non-gender toys to children.

http://www.essentialkids.com.au/entertai...219-gtemlu.....

Research has shown that gendered toys give girls the message that STEM (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) careers aren't in their territory, and let boys know that they're not the family nurturers.

and,

These career and lifestyle constraints are already evident in children by the age of nine...

The campaign itself is based around the assertion that the STEM occupations unfairly attract salaries around 80% higher than non-STEM occupations, and the inference that females are ultimately less likely to work in STEM-based occupations largely because of their earlier "feminine" gender stereotyping as children.

Despite the fact that there is no statistical evidence supporting this assertion, it's being claimed in all seriousness by the usual "rent-a-crowd" of largely female agitators. I spent my entire life working in a STEM occupation (engineering) and never witnessed any evidence of advantageous male salaries across the civil or structural engineering, quantity surveying, drafting, construction, manufacturing, or building etc fields. Those pay rates are fixed in Australia, and apply equally to both males and females—with the appropriate tertiary qualifications—under the Commonwealth Equal Opportunity Act 2010.

What is statistically evidenced in the US is that at tertiary education entrance levels, more females undertake Arts degrees, rather than a STEM or science degree.

[Image: percent-bachelors-degrees-women-usa.png]

Note the lowest degree numbers by profession: engineering, computer science, physical science, and architecture. And the highest: health, public admin, education, and psychology.

So the question is: does playing with dolls and tea-sets, and wearing pink fairy dresses as a child lead you to an Arts degree, and does playing with toy cars and train sets, and wearing blue overalls lead you to a science degree?

Or is the whole gender bias v. "hard" degrees just a myth?

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21-12-2016, 07:13 AM
RE: No Gender December: Does it even matter?
It's kind of funny that they want parents to buy "non-gender specific" toys....

That mindset itself is the problem.....

By saying that some toys are gender specific - you're reinforcing the idea that a toy has an inherent gender association....

.......

Perhaps the more correctly neutral approach would be buying what was formerly considered inappropriate gender related toys to your kids....

Like -- buy your daughter a toy AK-47.
Or - buy your son a Barbie doll......

.....

Or - just ignore the bullshit - and buy what your kid likes............

.......................................

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21-12-2016, 07:28 AM
RE: No Gender December: Does it even matter?
(21-12-2016 05:12 AM)SYZ Wrote:  The campaign itself is based around the assertion that the STEM occupations unfairly attract salaries around 80% higher than non-STEM occupations [...]
How can anyone say that it's unfair with a straight face? There's nothing unfair about a feminist dance therapy professor being paid less than an engineer who actually contributes something to society. Laugh out load

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21-12-2016, 07:30 AM
RE: No Gender December: Does it even matter?
It is pointless. Nobody wants to see that maybe, just maybe, computer science doesn't catch the fancy of most females. We are a sexually dimorphic species and all these social constructs are just a result and an expression of 2 million years of evolution. You can't change 2 million years of evolution in only 50 years. So if most girls want a tea set, get over it. If most boys want violent toys and cars get over it.

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21-12-2016, 07:36 AM
RE: No Gender December: Does it even matter?
(21-12-2016 07:30 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  It is pointless. Nobody wants to see that maybe, just maybe, computer science doesn't catch the fancy of most females. We are a sexually dimorphic species and all these social constructs are just a result and an expression of 2 million years of evolution. You can't change 2 million years of evolution in only 50 years. So if most girls want a tea set, get over it. If most boys want violent toys and cars get over it.

I've been part of several groups over the years -- and something I noticed --

Some people just aren't interested..........

When I flew R/C airplanes at a club -- it was almost 100 percent white males. Women weren't interested. The few that did, did so because their husband/boyfriend wanted them to learn. I knew one black guy who flew. We talked about it once - and he said a lot of his black friends thought it was a stupid, costly hobby.......

...........

Ditto ham radio. My SO is one of the very few female ham radio operators I've ever met......


And for some odd reason -- I never wanted to join a quilting club....


Go figure..

.......................................

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21-12-2016, 07:49 AM
RE: No Gender December: Does it even matter?
This wouldn't be a problem if everybody had a good warm cup of shut the fuck up and went to work.

Everybody feels the fucking need to talk about how they have a dragon dick, and everyone else feels the need to say that're stupid for saying it.

You both lose. Read a book or watch some porn.

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21-12-2016, 12:28 PM
RE: No Gender December: Does it even matter?
(21-12-2016 05:12 AM)SYZ Wrote:  So the question is: does playing with dolls and tea-sets, and wearing pink fairy dresses as a child lead you to an Arts degree, and does playing with toy cars and train sets, and wearing blue overalls lead you to a science degree?

Well, I used *My* tea set to mix chemicals from the chemistry set I got in '65. (As for the dolls, let's just say that experiments with scissors confirmed that I had no future whatsoever in hairdressing.)

Appropriately I wound up studying arts and sciences.
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21-12-2016, 12:37 PM
RE: No Gender December: Does it even matter?
I think a better solution is to just market STEM toys to girls. I don't think girls are going to stop liking dolls and ponies, but it doesn't have to be an either/or thing.

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21-12-2016, 12:43 PM
RE: No Gender December: Does it even matter?
I played with sticks and rocks and climbed trees. One time my aunt bought me a yoyo. I was amazed by it. I had one doll once but my dog ate it. My dog ate several toys I had so it was back to playing with stick and rocks.

I went into the arts. I'm blaming it on my dog.

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21-12-2016, 06:31 PM
RE: No Gender December: Does it even matter?
I will be honest, I did not bother clicking the link. I think what you said is enough to get a good picture.

Here is what I think about this whole issue.
I don't think that it is "gendered" toys that are the problem. The real problem is because of bias.
I have a girl, she must like dolls and the colour pink.
I have a boy, he must like cars and the colour blue.
It makes no sense and I agree with that.

But if I allow my kid to play with whatever it enjoys and whatever spikes their interest and it just so happens that my girl likes dolls and the colour pink or my boy just so happens to like cars and the colour blue, so be it. I will not artificially make it an issue.
I really think all we have to do is keep options for the kids.
My brothers both had dolls and barbie ken and I had toy cars and building blocks.
My brothers and I were even colour coded so it would be easier to organise us. My colour was blue, my brothers were red and yellow (our toy boxes and such things would be colour coded that way)
I got a barbie house for my 11th christmas and a microscope for my 12th birthday.
This is how my mother made a point out of "non gendered" child raising really. She'd let us all play with everything and in our minds there were no girl toys or boy toys. We just had toys and that was the end of it.

And to be honest, this is exactly how I want to do it when I have kids.
I was very happy the other day, when I went Christmas shopping, and I saw a woman in a toy shop buying science oriented things for presents for her kids. One was a crystal growing set and the other I think was a microscope.

The whole idea to have specifically "non-gendered" toys is just silly to me, I am sorry. Kids learn the world the way we let them explore it. If you guide your kids to submit to social bias of genders, then this is what they learn. In my opinion, we should let kids explore the world on their own to a certain degree (I mean there are things were we just have to step in as adults and parents, but I think that gender is not one of the things were parents should step in).
Either way, the moment something is artificially being lifted in importance, that moment will make the thing so much more interesting. And that goes from smoking and drugs all the way to "although you are a girl, you don't have to play with dolls, you really don't, how about this telescope, don't you rather want the fire fighter costume, you don't have to be a princess" Push push into seeming non-conformity because the parent has an agenda and wants to push it onto their child as if the kid is a science project. I hate that stuff.

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