No One Sees God
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13-03-2014, 04:36 PM
No One Sees God
Ok I posted this on EVC and the thread died out. It feels like to me that no Theist read the book "No One Sees God" by Michael Novak. So the response was limited. So I tried the message board on Progressive Christianity where Skeptical Christians and Spiritual Atheist Gather. Still nothing. I got one response about the writer Michael Novak himself.

"I find much of Novak's work these days rather pedantic and it seems as though he's desperately trying to join the "hip" conservative crowd. His views on progressive thought are informed with a 1970s perspective. Progressives aren't pot-smoking, free-lovin' hippies anymore!

The notion that ethics and morality only exist because of some transcendent, omnipotent deity is an old argument roundly refuted every day in this very secular United States of America. In fact, the more we drift away from dogmatic, patriarchal, triumphalist religions, the more moral and ethical we become!

I urge you to not waste your time on this tripe, but rather check out Stephen Cave's Immortality, The Quest to Live Forever and How it Drives Civilization. "

On the Evc Forum I was blasted by Atheist in the Intelligent Design debate but I held my ground. But when I posted on Michael Novaks book no Atheist Showed up to the party. Instead I got a Theist to sum up what amazon reviews said about his book. No real discussion happened. And yes I did look for atheist reviews of this book and found nothing. Now Michael Novak challenges Dawkins Harris and Hitchen in the ID debate and is very sneaky in his book. I can imagine any Theist that reads his book will learn new tactics to bullshit Atheist and give them headaches. Not because he is so smart but because he is so slick.

So in help for research I am attempting for the book I am writing I will put my original post here for so I can finally get the Atheist perspective. Hopefully one of you will read this book and give me your critique.

My next post to this thread will be my original post from EVC forum.
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13-03-2014, 04:38 PM
RE: No One Sees God
I have just began reading a book titled No One Sees God: The Dark Night of Atheists and Believers by Michael Novak

I am not sure what to make of it so far. I bought the book to see what he says about the Intelligent Design Debate. So far I am not impressed. His book is very well written in some ways but his reasoning ability is lacking.

Like other Christian thinkers he often frames topics with the word hate. Why do Atheist "hate" design for example. I will post more on here as I get through more of his book. My main interest besides the ID debate is to understand how Christians think so that the book I am writing will not offend Christians so much that they think I have no compassion or respect for them.

This is a bit hard for me because I have little respect for how Christianity was created out of other peoples myths historically and used to repress and conquer nonbelievers for a political agenda. Using historical data I can show that Christianity is based on Judaism which was based around Tribal Deities of the Canaanites and Babylonians. This is sort of an impasse for me having a dialogue with believers.

If you read this book "No One Sees God" you will see why. Michael Novak addresses the historical fact of the Philosophers God being with us very far back into history. But he fails to address the problems this raises. He seems to think along with many other Christians that this supports Theology of Christianity.

Richard Dawkins made it very clear he respects men like Einstein using metaphors to point to at least an appearance of intelligence behind the universe. But he also made it very clear that at best Einstein was talking about a sort of Pantheism. That is we are seeing a conscious universe because we are conscious and we project our intelligence onto the universe.

I think that Einstein really was a Pantheist just not one that used Pantheism to justify Jewish or Christian beliefs. Einstein was influenced by the writings of Spinoza who saw God as the Universe. But Spinoza tried to reconcile Pantheism with a Judeo personal God outside the Universe and a Pantheistic God that was the Universe and failed. I bring this up because in No One Sees God Michael Novak tries to use man's awareness of the Universe being more than stars and planets and random events to conclude that a Christian God directly follows from pure reasoning.

This is a problem because a Christian concept of a God man sacrificing himself to himself as a sort of blood offering doesn't directly follow from the Jewish Concept of God let alone from Pantheism. In point of fact no religion including Judaism directly follows or is anyway connected to Pantheism in any way. And to support this you will find that most Pantheist are actually Atheist.

Anyway I do not mind if you want to make comments on what I posted so far. But what I am really interested in is what anyone has to say after reading this book. What do you think of this book No One Sees God: The Dark Night of Atheists and Believers by Michael Novak

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