No Such Thing as an Atheist
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26-02-2010, 12:10 AM
 
RE: No Such Thing as an Atheist
Tell me wise one! What do you do for a living? Based on you saying that if I quote the Smithsonian about what they say about the Bible "I am appealing to authority". Are you not doing the same in every one of your arguments? What type of scientist are you? Sorry you are not a scientist, you are an historian that has studied the great antiquities. Wait you are not that either, you have studied all the worlds religions, so you must be a theologian? Nope, not that either, you are a statistician based on you telling me about stats. Either way it is a waste of time writing to you.
(25-02-2010 09:12 PM)supermanlives1973 Wrote:  martinb,

I did the research and, yes, the Hindu text does mention a guy named Issa Masih. But, the text I read also says that Jesus would have survived the crucifixion and travelled to India afterwards (aside from other purported locales).

If that is the case, then Jesus was NOT resurrected, which means he didn't 'die' for anyone's sins, did not ascend bodily into heaven. Some Atheists do not argue the existence of Jesus the 'man' (even Hitchens admits that he may have existed as a man) but NONE of the miracles he supposedly performed were real.

That doesn't make him divine. I can go about saying the same things Jesus had apparently said (I teach my own kids to love others, to respect their elders, etc. etc.) Would that make me a 'man of god'?

The fact that NONE of the things I listed above about Jesus would have happened if he survived the crucifixion defines, by default, that there is NO GOD.

Although, there is one perplexing thing though in the Hindu text...

Although he could have hidden his wounds, why did the text not mention anything about the holes in his hands where the soldiers drove spikes through them? Either a) that didn't happen or b) the writer of the Hindu text wasn't an eye witness (took the words exchanged during the meeting between Jesus and the King after the fact), which would, frankly, reduce its credibility).

One final point...

If a well-enough structured rumour started circulating in the world today, most people would take it verbatim. You are guilty of this and so am I. We tend to add our own biases and 'wishes' to those rumours, which skew the story from its original form. And this is us, who have evolved 2000 years from when all the Jesus stuff apparently happened.

Seeing how people were far more gullible back then, would you admit then that the simplest story could have become one of the most exaggerated of all time? When I was a child, my mother would tell me religious stories (like the tower of babel), and i would listen with amazement. Looking at the story nowadays, THROUGH THE EYES OF REASON, it is the most ridiculous tales in the world (I would have an easier time believing the story of Little Red Riding Hood, well except for the talking wolf part).

"Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable."I

am an Atheist because I don't have enough evidence to believe that a god does or ever did exist. I don't believe in a god or any gods. That makes me an A-theist...not an agnostic. There is too much evidence that science has uncovered that has led me to the determination that this human species, this world, and the universe came about through natural processes that, although we don't fully understand, do exist and are always working to mold the universe into what we see, feel, hear, smell and taste every day.

Before you ask me for the 'evidence', here are the concepts that I believe in:

1. The beginning of our universe - big bang theory, string theory, possible steady-state theory (no one knows for sure, but we will know one day...IT WASN'T GOD).

2. The beginning and evolution of life - abiogenesis, evolution by natural selection.

3. Everyday occurances that are 'unexplained' - shit happens, coincidence, not a DIVINE GUIDING HAND.

Finally, it is hard for me to understand what an omnipresent, omniscient, omnibenevolent supreme being, who can supposedly do what he wants, when he wants, and how...would want with this lowly planet which, even from the distance of Neptune, is nothing but a dust particle...

I think theists (which, yes, I classify you under that title) have daddy issues and, just so you feel good about yourselves and all the shit you do day in and day out, you believe in a giant sky fairy who will grant you eternity for being nice little sheep.

It is better to be true to yourself than to live a lie.

I don't play the game like "unbeliever" I am not here to argue, just discuss.
The Christian religion, although I don't like the word religion, hinges on the resurrection, The bible says that itself. 1 Corr 15-12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.

Prove the resurrection didn't happen, and Christianity is empty. Good luck friends.
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26-02-2010, 06:58 AM
RE: No Such Thing as an Atheist
(26-02-2010 12:10 AM)martinb59 Wrote:  Tell me wise one! What do you do for a living?

Does it matter? For all I know, you could be a hobo living in an alley who only gets to access the library's computers. Do I care? No. Because this is just a variant of argument ad hominem - attacking the arguer rather than the argument.
Who you are doesn't matter. What matters is the arguments that you present.

Quote:Based on you saying that if I quote the Smithsonian about what they say about the Bible "I am appealing to authority".

Because you are.

Quote:Are you not doing the same in every one of your arguments?

Tell me, where have I made the appeal to authority fallacy? I haven't quoted anyone, I haven't stated that "well so-and-so believes this so you should too". I have presented hard evidence. You ignoring that fact doesn't make it go away.

Quote:What type of scientist are you? Sorry you are not a scientist, you are an historian that has studied the great antiquities. Wait you are not that either, you have studied all the worlds religions, so you must be a theologian? Nope, not that either, you are a statistician based on you telling me about stats.

If you really must know, I'm a computer engineer and programmer. What are you? Are you a biologist? A doctor? A rocket scientist? A physicist? A historian? Do I care?

Quote:Either way it is a waste of time writing to you.

Must... fight urge... to post... IRONY PICTURE!

Quote:I don't play the game like "unbeliever" I am not here to argue, just discuss.
The Christian religion, although I don't like the word religion, hinges on the resurrection, The bible says that itself. 1 Corr 15-12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

Because there is no evidence that the Bible is true.

Quote:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.

Yep.

Quote:Prove the resurrection didn't happen, and Christianity is empty. Good luck friends.

Did you not read the burden of proof link I posted? You just committed the same fallacy that you have been this whole time.
Really. You might at least make an effort.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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26-02-2010, 07:02 AM
 
RE: No Such Thing as an Atheist
The 'bible' can say whatever it wants to say...if it is the only frame of reference you are using to prove something like the resurrection, then you are missing the point about using supporting documents.

YOU were the one who brought up that Jesus was spoken about in the Hindu text, YOU were trying to show PROOF of the man's existence.

The logic I am applying is that, if Jesus did go to India and other places AFTER his crucifixion, then he NEVER DIED, hence the RESURRECTION never happened. In trying to PROVE the existence of Jesus, you have proven (maybe inadvertently) that he wasn't DIVINE (he wasn't god incarnate), which makes the OT and NT complete fabrications of a greater truth (to make it simple for you, everything the OT and NT say, in effect, are lies, lies, and more lies).

Congratulations, martinb59, you have disproven the divine word of the bible! You just killed god! Smile
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