No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
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25-07-2013, 02:59 PM
RE: No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
(25-07-2013 02:56 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 02:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  No. This has nothing to do with getting a high school diploma.

Oaths are only meaningful if they are enforced. This oath will never be enforced. In the end this is just one of many silly cultural exercises. I don't see why atheists, people who have no belief in God, should get worked up about it. Only God haters have a strong reason.

It is introducing religion into a function of government, 1st amendment forbids this. If you want a secular government you should be against that.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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25-07-2013, 03:11 PM
RE: No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
It is a matter of principle Heywood. Forcing people to make oaths under duress is immoral and disgusting. Plain and simple.

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25-07-2013, 03:49 PM
RE: No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
(25-07-2013 02:59 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 02:56 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Oaths are only meaningful if they are enforced. This oath will never be enforced. In the end this is just one of many silly cultural exercises. I don't see why atheists, people who have no belief in God, should get worked up about it. Only God haters have a strong reason.

It is introducing religion into a function of government, 1st amendment forbids this. If you want a secular government you should be against that.

If it is introducing religion then you should be able to identify the religion it is introducing. Can you identify what religion is being introduced? It seems to me you conflating the mentioning of a deity which may or may not exist with religion. They are quite different things.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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25-07-2013, 03:57 PM
RE: No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
(25-07-2013 03:11 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  It is a matter of principle Heywood. Forcing people to make oaths under duress is immoral and disgusting. Plain and simple.

A principle that applies to only atheists or does it apply everyone? If the oath is immoral simply because it is an oath, why does the title of the thread single out atheists? Why does the title of the thread make the accusation that only atheists are being wronged by "Fundies"(a claim which there is scant evidence).

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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25-07-2013, 04:09 PM
RE: No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
(25-07-2013 03:57 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 03:11 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  It is a matter of principle Heywood. Forcing people to make oaths under duress is immoral and disgusting. Plain and simple.

A principle that applies to only atheists or does it apply everyone? If the oath is immoral simply because it is an oath, why does the title of the thread single out atheists? Why does the title of the thread make the accusation that only atheists are being wronged by "Fundies"(a claim which there is scant evidence).

Uhh cause this is an Atheist forum, so you know we might be a little concerned by stuff that affects us?

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25-07-2013, 04:17 PM
RE: No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
(25-07-2013 03:57 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 03:11 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  It is a matter of principle Heywood. Forcing people to make oaths under duress is immoral and disgusting. Plain and simple.

A principle that applies to only atheists or does it apply everyone? If the oath is immoral simply because it is an oath, why does the title of the thread single out atheists? Why does the title of the thread make the accusation that only atheists are being wronged by "Fundies"(a claim which there is scant evidence).

Sweet Jesus! You don't get it still somehow, which is kind of amazing. Any oath which is forced under duress is immoral and disgusting. This one in particular is two-fold because it affects atheists in particular, it attempts to force atheists to acknowledge something which they don't believe in.

Let's say for the sake of argument that you're a Christian. In order to get your diploma where you live you are forced to acknowledge Vishnu as a god. What kind of stink do you think the Christians would make about such a scenario?

At the basic level, yes, it applies to everyone. This one in particular is doubly offensive to atheists. For the record though, no I didn't create or name the thread, but I don't disagree with the disgust felt from the atheist's viewpoint either.

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25-07-2013, 04:21 PM
RE: No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
(25-07-2013 04:09 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 03:57 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  A principle that applies to only atheists or does it apply everyone? If the oath is immoral simply because it is an oath, why does the title of the thread single out atheists? Why does the title of the thread make the accusation that only atheists are being wronged by "Fundies"(a claim which there is scant evidence).

Uhh cause this is an Atheist forum, so you know we might be a little concerned by stuff that affects us?

If forcing people to take oaths is immoral, then you are affected by it independent of your atheism. The real issue is the oath itself and not that it includes the phrase, "So help me God".

This is a thinking atheist forum, not the superfluous thinking atheist forum.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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25-07-2013, 04:27 PM
RE: No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
(25-07-2013 04:17 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Let's say for the sake of argument that you're a Christian. In order to get your diploma where you live you are forced to acknowledge Vishnu as a god. What kind of stink do you think the Christians would make about such a scenario?

I'd speak the words to the silly oath, grab my diploma and go on with my life. As long as the oath can't be used to harm me later I'm not going to get my "panties in a bind" over it.

Life is too short and there are more important battles to fight.

Vosur, Anjele, Hanoff.....have you learned nothing in my absence?
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25-07-2013, 04:29 PM
RE: No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
(25-07-2013 04:21 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 04:09 PM)ridethespiral Wrote:  Uhh cause this is an Atheist forum, so you know we might be a little concerned by stuff that affects us?

If forcing people to take oaths is immoral, then you are affected by it independent of your atheism. The real issue is the oath itself and not that it includes the phrase, "So help me God".

This is a thinking atheist forum, not the superfluous thinking atheist forum.

Heywood the issue here isn't necessarily the words "So help me God." The real issue is forcing individuals to take an oath to graduate high school. And also this is a majority Christian country. It's assumed the Christian god is being implied in the oath Drinking Beverage

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25-07-2013, 04:50 PM
RE: No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
(19-07-2013 08:51 AM)ridethespiral Wrote:  http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyath...gh-school/

Some of these old fundee shit bags need to start dropping. This is not the United States of Jesus, this is not a theocracy, this is a secular nation by law damnit!

Ps. Not sure if this belongs in politics, news or Atheism/Theism (probably all 3) so feel free to move it.
A desperate move by some fundies who feel threatened by the truth.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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