No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
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25-07-2013, 05:30 PM
RE: No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
(25-07-2013 05:19 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 01:59 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  "So help me God" isn't a declaration of belief in God. An atheist can say it and still be an atheist.

Sure, its a silly for an atheist to say, but so is making a stink about it.
So these Republicans shouldn't be making a stink that requires even atheists to say it in order to graduate. Glad we agree...

I'm of the opinion that the bill is silly regardless if it includes the words, "So help me God" or not.

Oaths are only meaningful if they are enforced.

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25-07-2013, 05:35 PM
RE: No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
(25-07-2013 05:30 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 05:19 PM)Impulse Wrote:  So these Republicans shouldn't be making a stink that requires even atheists to say it in order to graduate. Glad we agree...

I'm of the opinion that the bill is silly regardless if it includes the words, "So help me God" or not.

Oaths are only meaningful if they are enforced.
Oaths have meaning the second they are created - derived from their purpose and words - regardless of whether they are enforced. Enforcement empowers them, but is not required for meaning.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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25-07-2013, 06:11 PM
RE: No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
(25-07-2013 05:30 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 05:19 PM)Impulse Wrote:  So these Republicans shouldn't be making a stink that requires even atheists to say it in order to graduate. Glad we agree...

I'm of the opinion that the bill is silly regardless if it includes the words, "So help me God" or not.

Oaths are only meaningful if they are enforced.

Lovely to see a Christian ready to bear false witness, secure in the knowledge that they'll never be punished for doing so.

Some of us consider the principle of personal integrity as at least as significant to such matters as whatever legal force may or may not be brought against us.

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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25-07-2013, 06:36 PM
RE: No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
(25-07-2013 06:11 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 05:30 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I'm of the opinion that the bill is silly regardless if it includes the words, "So help me God" or not.

Oaths are only meaningful if they are enforced.

Lovely to see a Christian ready to bear false witness, secure in the knowledge that they'll never be punished for doing so.

Some of us consider the principle of personal integrity as at least as significant to such matters as whatever legal force may or may not be brought against us.

If objecting to the oath makes you feel better as a person, well then that is a legitimate reason for you to object it.

Such a position however, does not change the fact that this oath isn't an attack on atheism or atheistic beliefs. It doesn't change the fact that this oath doesn't single out atheists anymore then say anarchists. It doesn't change the fact that this oath isn't an introduction or promotion of religion.

On a side note, what evidence do you have that suggests I am Christian?

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25-07-2013, 07:25 PM
RE: No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

The very first line of the very first amendment in the US Constitution
Demanding students from a federally funded public school to take a religious oath saying they will uphold the constitution as a requirement for graduation.

I cannot imagine law makers so out of touch with reality AND the constitution that they would do this.

And yet here we are

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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25-07-2013, 07:29 PM
RE: No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
(25-07-2013 07:25 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

The very first line of the very first amendment in the US Constitution
Demanding students from a federally funded public school to take a religious oath saying they will uphold the constitution as a requirement for graduation.

I cannot imagine law makers so out of touch with reality AND the constitution that they would do this.

And yet here we are

Until you can point to a religion this oath is referring too, you have no case. You make a claim this is a religious oath. The burden of proof is on you to show what religion this oath is referencing. You can't because it does not. You are conflating a reference to an unspecific deity with religion.....an egregious error.

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25-07-2013, 07:32 PM
RE: No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
(25-07-2013 07:29 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 07:25 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

The very first line of the very first amendment in the US Constitution
Demanding students from a federally funded public school to take a religious oath saying they will uphold the constitution as a requirement for graduation.

I cannot imagine law makers so out of touch with reality AND the constitution that they would do this.

And yet here we are

Until you can point to a religion this oath is referring too, you have no case. You make a claim this is a religious oath. The burden of proof is on you to show what religion this oath is referencing. You can't because it does not. You are conflating a reference to an unspecific deity with religion.....an egregious error.

Any reference to a deity is a religious reference.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-07-2013, 07:38 PM
RE: No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
(25-07-2013 07:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 07:29 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Until you can point to a religion this oath is referring too, you have no case. You make a claim this is a religious oath. The burden of proof is on you to show what religion this oath is referencing. You can't because it does not. You are conflating a reference to an unspecific deity with religion.....an egregious error.

Any reference to a deity is a religious reference.

You're confused. Theism is not religion.

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25-07-2013, 07:46 PM
RE: No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
(25-07-2013 07:38 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(25-07-2013 07:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  Any reference to a deity is a religious reference.

You're confused. Theism is not religion.

re·li·gion
/riˈlijən/
Noun

1. The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.
2. Details of belief as taught or discussed.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-07-2013, 08:21 PM
RE: No diploma for Atheists in AZ if the fundees have their way...
(25-07-2013 07:38 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  You're confused. Theism is not religion.

Well, this should be good.

How is it not, then?

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