No religion
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18-04-2010, 02:25 PM
 
RE: No religion
(18-04-2010 02:18 PM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  I have to side with Unbeliever, it wouldn't solve too many problems. Sure, it's one less reason to fight, but it will be replaced by some other reason why a select group of people has to be exterminated.

Hello Ashley.Hunt,

I was unaware that there were any sides to choose from, seeing as both of us made valid points. Either way, let reason prevail.Smile
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21-04-2010, 10:19 PM
 
RE: No religion
The world would be better in some aspects, if only temporarily. Discrimination would probably be more prominent. We would have less oil...lmao. But there'd also be a lot more people around.
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24-04-2010, 02:18 PM
 
RE: No religion
(18-04-2010 02:22 PM)DrNekoDR Wrote:  Getting the poor uneducated masses riled up would not be so easy.

I agree with you, and you thought it would never happen. "Getting the poor uneducated masses riled up would not be so easy." Because all the intelligent people would be gone!
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24-04-2010, 02:26 PM
 
RE: No religion
Implications of religiosity and intelligence going hand in hand?

"Of 43 studies carried out since 1927 on the relationship between religious belief and one's intelligence and/or educational level, all but four found an inverse connection. That is, the higher one's intelligence or education level, the less one is likely to be religious or hold "beliefs" of any kind."”

"The God Delusion" by Prof. Richard Dawkins (2006)

Incidentally, I can find you literally dozens of documents and research papers, by respectable peer reviewed journals and surveys from around the world, that display the exact same correlation. Crudely put, the more religious you are, the dumber you are.
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24-04-2010, 04:14 PM
 
RE: No religion
(24-04-2010 02:26 PM)Ceryle Wrote:  Implications of religiosity and intelligence going hand in hand?

"Of 43 studies carried out since 1927 on the relationship between religious belief and one's intelligence and/or educational level, all but four found an inverse connection. That is, the higher one's intelligence or education level, the less one is likely to be religious or hold "beliefs" of any kind."”

"The God Delusion" by Prof. Richard Dawkins (2006)

Incidentally, I can find you literally dozens of documents and research papers, by respectable peer reviewed journals and surveys from around the world, that display the exact same correlation. Crudely put, the more religious you are, the dumber you are.

Need to show me the studies, don't want to generalize, because I haven't seen all 43 studies, but they are crap. I live here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coto_de_Caza,_California

Median family income is $141,598.00. Top 10% of income in the US. Guaranteed the people have above average IQ's.

This Church is 3 miles from me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddleback_Church

It is made up of people from my community and others that surround us which also are wealthy areas. Give the 20,000 people that go to Saddleback each week an IQ test, and if you can drum up 20,000 atheists in my area, give them IQ tests and they will be the same. Most studies will use something like this; Angola, 80% of the people said that religion was very important to them, but the average IQ was a lowly 69. In Bangladesh 88% of the people said that religion was very important to them and their IQ was higher but still only an average of 81. Go find 20,000 atheists from that country and give them an IQ test and match it against the church IQ from my area and we will prove that atheists score lower than theists. Don't want to generalize but everyone of the tests I have seen have flawed logic, but then again what would you expect!

My guess is you saw that quote in Dawkins book, never gave it one thought and quoted it. You people are supposed to be skeptics and free thinkers, let's start shall we!
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24-04-2010, 04:57 PM
 
RE: No religion
So...wait.

You want me to get twenty thousand atheists...from arguably one of the poorer countries in the world...and contrast their average intelligence to a first world countries inhabitants, in one of the wealthiest regions of that country?

But, you are generalizing. Of the forty-three studies I commented on, evidentially they mostly use crap logic, as you so elegantly put it. Which, of course makes sense. I mean, obviously all of the time, energy, and resources placed into these studies, by established and highly respected institutions was an idiotic waste of themselves, better spent offering god sacrifices of blood and animal fat. And as a coup-de-grace of my position, you even presented an astounding study worthy of a Nobel prize in its originality and thorough planning.
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24-04-2010, 05:10 PM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2010 05:13 PM by ashley.hunt60.)
RE: No religion
(24-04-2010 04:14 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  Need to show me the studies, don't want to generalize, because I haven't seen all 43 studies, but they are crap. I live here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coto_de_Caza,_California

Median family income is $141,598.00. Top 10% of income in the US. Guaranteed the people have above average IQ's.

This Church is 3 miles from me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddleback_Church

It is made up of people from my community and others that surround us which also are wealthy areas. Give the 20,000 people that go to Saddleback each week an IQ test, and if you can drum up 20,000 atheists in my area, give them IQ tests and they will be the same. Most studies will use something like this; Angola, 80% of the people said that religion was very important to them, but the average IQ was a lowly 69. In Bangladesh 88% of the people said that religion was very important to them and their IQ was higher but still only an average of 81. Go find 20,000 atheists from that country and give them an IQ test and match it against the church IQ from my area and we will prove that atheists score lower than theists. Don't want to generalize but everyone of the tests I have seen have flawed logic, but then again what would you expect!

My guess is you saw that quote in Dawkins book, never gave it one thought and quoted it. You people are supposed to be skeptics and free thinkers, let's start shall we!

I like to think that the two are not correlated, but...

http://hypnosis.home.netcom.com/iq_vs_religiosity.htm
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics...q.html#n01
http://w-uh.com/posts/031226a-religion_vs_IQ.html
Just Google "religiosity vs IQ". I'm hard pressed to find anything that doesn't show a negative correlation. Of course, correlation doesn't equal causation. And this study was by country I believe, so there are several factors, and the US is one of the smartest countries despite it's religion.

I don't mean to offend you Martin, though I'm sure I will, but I found this funny.
[Image: logical.jpg]
And Ceryle, your new and may I be one of the first to welcome you to the dark side. Don't forget, we have the cookies.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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24-04-2010, 05:18 PM
 
RE: No religion
Thanks for the welcome Ashley; yes you are the first. These cookies...I'm sorry, but I already ate the chocolate chip ones.

Also, I knew of that image, but decided not to include it; as funny as it is. >_<
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24-04-2010, 05:26 PM
 
RE: No religion
hello martin,

so basically you are saying they asked dumb people if they were religious rather than asking religious people if they were smart, leaving out a significant proportion of the group. and therefore the test is botched and invalid scientifically

i have no knowledge of the methodology of these test but i still think that they can be accurate because the basic function of religion is (to give hope, comfort and purpose to life,) is more of a neccesity to people with lower iqs, to get them through daily life that science cant.
as i said in my bit about happiness they need to have a positive mentality and religion gives them that. even though logic and science tells them with statistics they are doomed. knowing the best you'll ever be is flipping burgers isnt encouraging. it doesnt allow people to measure some kind of progress.and it is basic primal behavior to seek progress and hope. nobody can live with the fact it is all for nothing. people with higher end jobs enjoy the luxury of not needing it to get through the day because they can measure the progress they made and be encouraged by it, and can therefore discard it in favor of other ways to interpret the world.

peer pressure might also make people less forthcoming about their beliefs. i wouldnt trust a scientist's work as much if i knew he was a creationist. but if he was a dieu horloger believer than yeah sure no problem.

to sum things up dumb people need religion more and smart people need to hide it more.

oh i took a quick glance at that graph and i gotta ask why doesnt it account for the religiousness of people above a IQ of 110 but it does go all the way down to sixty. makes me remember all gore with his graph of carbondioxide something being a hockey stick and therefore unprecedently dangerous and growing at a rapid rate while the full graph showd it to be a normal occurense over the course of millions of years. and that made it a scare tactic or bluff to the masses who were wowed for lack of a better term by the authority of science. so please provide a full graph if you can, i'm sure martin will insist on it.

ps if i remember correctly i have a IQ higher than 110 and i go to a school of a educational level where about 15 % of my country go to. and that is a significant chunk. and further more it is a catholic/jewish school though it doesnt show it colors except for holidays. it keeps a neutral profile and doesnt try to convert us.
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24-04-2010, 05:39 PM
 
RE: No religion
I don't really have a bent on nihilism personally. If I want a purpose for my life, then I give it purpose. Just because death occurs, does not mean that those that lived, are a waste because of that death. {Random musings from this quote: "nobody can live with the fact it is all for nothing."}
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