No religion
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24-04-2010, 08:28 PM
RE: No religion
(24-04-2010 08:21 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  Sorry, but you proved multiple points! No thinking on your part as you can only Google!

Quote:Nicely put, well thought out, and I am jaded by the unintelligent that I have encountered on this site. So my apologies, but I still call Bullshit, show me the studies, let's see the sample groups, and then we can prove me wrong, fair enough?

[Image: PW-Objection01.jpg]

Your two statements contradict each other. Can't use studies, because that proves that we can only Google and not think. Have to present studies, but that proves that we have to use Google and...

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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24-04-2010, 08:37 PM
 
RE: No religion
Source: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob...ce4b6001de

In 2008, intelligence researcher Helmuth Nyborg examined whether IQ relates to denomination and income, using representative data from the National Longitudinal Study of Youth, which includes intelligence tests on a representative selection of American youth, where they have also replied to questions about religious belief. His results, published in the scientific journal Intelligence demonstrated that on average, Atheists scored 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions.

Commenting on the study in The Daily Telegraph, Lynn said "Why should fewer academics believe in God than the general population? I believe it is simply a matter of the IQ. Academics have higher IQs than the general population. Several Gallup poll studies of the general population have shown that those with higher IQs tend not to believe in God,"

End

The above is the short hand information that I have begun to gather, mind you, it is far from refined, so please pardon the rough nature of the information; it will get better by the final publication. However, you are pushing the issue at the moment.
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24-04-2010, 08:54 PM
RE: No religion
(24-04-2010 08:21 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  Sorry, but you proved multiple points! No thinking on your part as you can only Google!

I don't see why utilizing searching tools hampers my thinking. I didn't mindlessly through the first few links provided here. I looked through them, avoided blogs, and picked the most reliable sites that I could find(Given the appropriate time).

(24-04-2010 08:21 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  You showed the countries I mentioned.

And your point? The all follow a pattern.

(24-04-2010 08:21 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  Listen all you hyper intelligent atheists!!!! Prove to me, a stupid theist that the graduates from whatever school you go to, from high school to college, that atheists have a higher IQ than theists. Really not that hard, so go tie your thinking caps on and get busy!!!

I don't mean to call you stupid. There could be several causes behind this. This doesn't mean that every atheist has a higher IQ then every theist. another thing to note; my study deals with groups, not people. This could also have an effect on the result. Finally, my school doesn't do that. We don't give IQ tests to all graduates. I don't have access to other students' SAT and other such tests scores(for good reason), so I really don't think I could prove that the atheists in my graduating class are smarter than the theists.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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24-04-2010, 09:00 PM
 
RE: No religion
(24-04-2010 08:54 PM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  
(24-04-2010 08:21 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  Sorry, but you proved multiple points! No thinking on your part as you can only Google!

I don't see why utilizing searching tools hampers my thinking. I didn't mindlessly through the first few links provided here. I looked through them, avoided blogs, and picked the most reliable sites that I could find(Given the appropriate time).

(24-04-2010 08:21 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  You showed the countries I mentioned.

And your point? The all follow a pattern.

(24-04-2010 08:21 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  Listen all you hyper intelligent atheists!!!! Prove to me, a stupid theist that the graduates from whatever school you go to, from high school to college, that atheists have a higher IQ than theists. Really not that hard, so go tie your thinking caps on and get busy!!!

I don't mean to call you stupid. There could be several causes behind this. This doesn't mean that every atheist has a higher IQ then every theist. another thing to note; my study deals with groups, not people. This could also have an effect on the result. Finally, my school doesn't do that. We don't give IQ tests to all graduates. I don't have access to other students' SAT and other such tests scores(for good reason), so I really don't think I could prove that the atheists in my graduating class are smarter than the theists.

Once again your messiah Dawkins made a claim that was quoted in a post, in my opinion, with no idea how all those studies were done. So provide his studies or do one of your own, but stop following Dawkins blindly, you are supposed to be skeptical, so be skeptical!
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24-04-2010, 09:06 PM
RE: No religion
(24-04-2010 09:00 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  Once again your messiah Dawkins made a claim that was quoted in a post, in my opinion, with no idea how all those studies were done.

The study wasn't done separately; it was a graph of data gathered in two separate studies. One sampled the number of people who believed that religion was very important and created a percentage value for the country: you can read it here.
One site's summation of another:

Quote:The IQ data is from IQ and the Wealth of Nations by Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen.


p. 73-80, Table 6.5: National IQ based on arithmetic means calculated by Lynn and Vanhanen (2002), in parentheses PISA scores of "mathematical competence" (Prenzel, Manfred et al. (eds).: PISA 2003. M√ľnster: Waxmann 2004, p. 70, Table 2.9; or: PISA 2003: A Profile of Student Performance in Mathematics) , transformed into IQ (PISA scores, mean 500, SD 100, have to be transformed into IQ values, mean 100, SD 15, by adding or subtracting the deviation from the mean in the relationship 100 : 15 = 6,67, that means PISA 433 corresponds to IQ 90, PISA 500 to IQ 100, PISA 567 to IQ 110):

The two studies were both independently verified. The graph presented simply places them both in a scatter plot.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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24-04-2010, 09:14 PM
RE: No religion
(24-04-2010 09:00 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  Once again your messiah Dawkins made a claim that was quoted in a post, in my opinion, with no idea how all those studies were done. So provide his studies or do one of your own, but stop following Dawkins blindly, you are supposed to be skeptical, so be skeptical!

Martin, I have a big secret for you; I have never read one of Dawkins' books. I have some of his speeches from to time, but that is about it. If Dawkins was my messiah, then I would be going to atheist-hell for not following him. I have no idea if he did the studies himself, or just referenced to them in his book.

We have provided several links to the studies. What do you want as evidence? Here is a little clip from education resources information center.

Please note the .gov

Quote:The present study examined whether IQ relates systematically to denomination and income within the framework of the "g" nexus, using representative data from the National Longitudinal Study of Youth (NLSY97). Atheists score 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions. Denominations differ significantly in IQ and income. Religiosity declines between ages 12 to 17. It is suggested that IQ makes an individual likely to gravitate toward a denomination and level of achievement that best fit his or hers particular level of cognitive complexity. Ontogenetically speaking this means that contemporary denominations are rank ordered by largely hereditary variations in brain efficiency (i.e. IQ). In terms of evolution, modern Atheists are reacting rationally to cognitive and emotional challenges, whereas Liberals and, in particular Dogmatics, still rely on ancient, pre-rational, supernatural and wishful thinking. (Contains 9 tables.)

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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24-04-2010, 09:25 PM
 
RE: No religion
(24-04-2010 08:37 PM)Ceryle Wrote:  Source: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob...ce4b6001de

In 2008, intelligence researcher Helmuth Nyborg examined whether IQ relates to denomination and income, using representative data from the National Longitudinal Study of Youth, which includes intelligence tests on a representative selection of American youth, where they have also replied to questions about religious belief. His results, published in the scientific journal Intelligence demonstrated that on average, Atheists scored 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions.

Commenting on the study in The Daily Telegraph, Lynn said "Why should fewer academics believe in God than the general population? I believe it is simply a matter of the IQ. Academics have higher IQs than the general population. Several Gallup poll studies of the general population have shown that those with higher IQs tend not to believe in God,"

End

The above is the short hand information that I have begun to gather, mind you, it is far from refined, so please pardon the rough nature of the information; it will get better by the final publication. However, you are pushing the issue at the moment.

I am not paying $31.00 to find out what I already know. Really simple people. Compare the IQ of atheists and theists in your area, or graduates of your schools. Everyone in the US has access to their IQ scores from high School. Go get your theists scores and compare them to the atheist scores. To compare a nation like Angola to the current communist countries is a stupid test sorry. Forget "Evidence is reviewed pointing to a negative relationship between intelligence and religious belief in the United States and Europe. It is shown that intelligence measured as psychometric g is negatively related to religious belief. We also examine whether this negative relationship between intelligence and religious belief is present between nations. We find that in a sample of 137 countries the correlation between national IQ and disbelief in God is 0.60." Compare atheists on my street to theists on my street, if you all can't see that as fair then you prove my point that atheists are not smarter.
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24-04-2010, 09:27 PM
RE: No religion
So you're just going to dismiss evidence out of hand? How do you justify this incredible intellectual dishonesty?

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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24-04-2010, 09:29 PM
 
RE: No religion
(24-04-2010 09:14 PM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  
(24-04-2010 09:00 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  Once again your messiah Dawkins made a claim that was quoted in a post, in my opinion, with no idea how all those studies were done. So provide his studies or do one of your own, but stop following Dawkins blindly, you are supposed to be skeptical, so be skeptical!

Martin, I have a big secret for you; I have never read one of Dawkins' books. I have some of his speeches from to time, but that is about it. If Dawkins was my messiah, then I would be going to atheist-hell for not following him. I have no idea if he did the studies himself, or just referenced to them in his book.

We have provided several links to the studies. What do you want as evidence? Here is a little clip from education resources information center.

Please note the .gov

Quote:The present study examined whether IQ relates systematically to denomination and income within the framework of the "g" nexus, using representative data from the National Longitudinal Study of Youth (NLSY97). Atheists score 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions. Denominations differ significantly in IQ and income. Religiosity declines between ages 12 to 17. It is suggested that IQ makes an individual likely to gravitate toward a denomination and level of achievement that best fit his or hers particular level of cognitive complexity. Ontogenetically speaking this means that contemporary denominations are rank ordered by largely hereditary variations in brain efficiency (i.e. IQ). In terms of evolution, modern Atheists are reacting rationally to cognitive and emotional challenges, whereas Liberals and, in particular Dogmatics, still rely on ancient, pre-rational, supernatural and wishful thinking. (Contains 9 tables.)

Like I said in a post, heads up test, atheists VS theists. Same education, same economic background, totally heads up test. Find that one and I will apologize to everyone.
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24-04-2010, 09:32 PM
RE: No religion
(24-04-2010 09:29 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  Like I said in a post, heads up test, atheists VS theists. Same education, same economic background, totally heads up test. Find that one and I will apologize to everyone.

Perhaps you should tell us your specific objections to the methodology used in this graph. What specifically makes you think that it is invalid?

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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