No religion
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
24-04-2010, 09:36 PM
 
RE: No religion
(24-04-2010 09:27 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  So you're just going to dismiss evidence out of hand? How do you justify this incredible intellectual dishonesty?

Let's boil this debate down! You are saying that you have a higher IQ than me, I say prove it. To small of a sample, then go find a study that does a heads up IQ test. You really think that a Harvard MBA theist has a lower IQ than A Harvard MBA atheist. Do really think that a Santa Ana CA Junior college AA degree in accounting atheist has a higher IQ than a a Santa Ana CA Junior college AA degree in accounting theist? PROVE IT or stop bring up flawed tests!
Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2010, 09:47 PM
RE: No religion
(24-04-2010 09:36 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(24-04-2010 09:27 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  So you're just going to dismiss evidence out of hand? How do you justify this incredible intellectual dishonesty?

Let's boil this debate down! You are saying that you have a higher IQ than me, I say prove it.

And I say you're strawmanning.

First of all, I didn't make this claim. I simply stepped in to clarify on a few points dealing with the study.
Secondly, the claim is that atheists are, on average, smarter than theists. It is not a claim that anyone here is smarter than anyone else.

Quote:You really think that a Harvard MBA theist has a lower IQ than A Harvard MBA atheist. Do really think that a Santa Ana CA Junior college AA degree in accounting atheist has a higher IQ than a a Santa Ana CA Junior college AA degree in accounting theist? PROVE IT or stop bring up flawed tests!

The graph is of countries' citizens as a whole, not one compared to another. You are taking too small of a sample - and doing so on purpose. The entire point of the study is that it measures the average, not single instances.

"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2010, 10:01 PM
 
RE: No religion
(24-04-2010 09:47 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(24-04-2010 09:36 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(24-04-2010 09:27 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  So you're just going to dismiss evidence out of hand? How do you justify this incredible intellectual dishonesty?

Let's boil this debate down! You are saying that you have a higher IQ than me, I say prove it.

And I say you're strawmanning.

First of all, I didn't make this claim. I simply stepped in to clarify on a few points dealing with the study.
Secondly, the claim is that atheists are, on average, smarter than theists. It is not a claim that anyone here is smarter than anyone else.

Quote:You really think that a Harvard MBA theist has a lower IQ than A Harvard MBA atheist. Do really think that a Santa Ana CA Junior college AA degree in accounting atheist has a higher IQ than a a Santa Ana CA Junior college AA degree in accounting theist? PROVE IT or stop bring up flawed tests!

The graph is of countries' citizens as a whole, not one compared to another. You are taking too small of a sample - and doing so on purpose. The entire point of the study is that it measures the average, not single instances.

And I say you are doing the same thing because you know I am right. Take whatever size sample you want from any area. Compare the IQs from theists and atheists with the same socioeconomic factors and see how they come up. Anything other than that is wrong and you know it.
Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2010, 10:04 PM
RE: No religion
(24-04-2010 10:01 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  And I say you are doing the same thing because you know I am right.

Then you are either lying, deliberately obtuse, or stupid, and I doubt very much that you are stupid.

Quote:Take whatever size sample you want from any area. Compare the IQs from theists and atheists with the same socioeconomic factors and see how they come up. Anything other than that is wrong and you know it.

That's exactly what this graph does.

"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2010, 10:07 PM
 
RE: No religion
Hey.

Unbeliever.

What's your IQ?

Mine's 131, on average, with a range between 125 and 134, with a six point error range in either direction. Incidentally, I'm also a type O- bloodtype.
Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2010, 10:08 PM
RE: No religion
(24-04-2010 09:36 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  Let's boil this debate down! You are saying that you have a higher IQ than me, I say prove it. To small of a sample, then go find a study that does a heads up IQ test. You really think that a Harvard MBA theist has a lower IQ than A Harvard MBA atheist. Do really think that a Santa Ana CA Junior college AA degree in accounting atheist has a higher IQ than a a Santa Ana CA Junior college AA degree in accounting theist? PROVE IT or stop bring up flawed tests!

I don't have access to those numbers, sorry. And that is not what I'm saying. If we take one atheist and compare that one person to one theist, it wouldn't prove anything, other than one if smarter than the other. If we want to know the average education of an African American, do we walk up to one black person, ask their education level, and say every other black person in America has the same education level? No, we ask hundreds, thousands, of black people from all different places to get an overall look.

This is not saying that I, Ashley, am smart than you, Martin, because you believe in god and I don't. It's looking at groups. It means that any given atheist as a slightly higher chance of being smarter then any given theist. It it not an absolute thing. What is more, is that is just shows correlation, and that doesn't mean causation.

And now you are throwing education into this. The study that I looked at showed average IQ plotted against average religious dogma by countries, and it showed a negative correlation. That is all the study showed, and yeah, when you throw equal education in it, it might change things. But that wasn't the study. Don't read more into than there it. It's not a flawed study, it just doesn't address what you want.
(24-04-2010 10:07 PM)Ceryle Wrote:  Incidentally, I'm also a type O- bloodtype.

So I am. Universal donors, unite!

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2010, 10:11 PM
RE: No religion
(24-04-2010 10:07 PM)Ceryle Wrote:  Hey.

Unbeliever.

What's your IQ?

No idea, and I don't particularly care, either. Never bothered to find out, see no reason to do so.

In all truthfulness, I really don't think that IQ is a great measure of intelligence. Every time I've seen an IQ test, it's been more of a measure of the trivia you can recall at a moment's notice than your actual ability to reason and learn. But then, I've never taken an official IQ test. The only ones I've seen are online dealies that advertise prepaid cell phones at you while you answer questions. Maybe the actual ones are more well-made.

"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2010, 10:14 PM
 
RE: No religion
Neither do I, but I felt like poking at you just the same. ^_^
Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2010, 10:25 PM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2010 10:33 PM by Unbeliever.)
RE: No religion
(24-04-2010 10:14 PM)Ceryle Wrote:  Neither do I, but I felt like poking at you just the same. ^_^

Understood. Poking is fun sometimes.

Now, back to the trial at hand...

*distant sound of me shouting OBJECTION!*
Well, you caught me at a weird time - turns out all my dorm buddies were checking their IQ scores as well, and they got me to do it. According to IQTest.com, I'm a 143. Like I said, though, I don't think that's reliable, and I don't know what the range of error is.

"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-04-2010, 10:51 PM
 
RE: No religion
i did take one once cant really remember much of it but i still have a little book to practice for one. i'll just quote the titles of the content. it trains logical thinking spacial thinking numerically bound thinking, memory and obervational skills and detection speed and practical intelligence. i never looked it through so i cant really say what is about. but it definitely is more difficult than anything on the net. its mostly about finding the common factor and predicting what logically comes next in figures sequences or stories. really easy at low levels but mind boggling at higher level. and theres no way you are 140 if thats so you are a fricking genius beyond belief most people wont get higher than 120 anything above that and your talking serious genius. they class the results from 1 to 9 you would be in class 8 between 130 and 145.

but keep in mind as i got a training book for it though i never used it. it is something people can influence by studying so it isnt accurate all the time. if you take into consideration other factors which could distort the result. like luck or sickness or just lack of motivation for instance. i could find a nice little problem you and martin can rack you brains over and the first one with the right answer wins
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: