Poll: Allah, Yahweh, atheist? Left wing, right wing, no wing?
Left wing
Right wing
No wing
[Show Results]
 
No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
03-09-2014, 02:20 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(03-09-2014 01:45 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(03-09-2014 01:28 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Uh-oh, KG. Looks like ol' Lumi's going to have to add another name to his list of enemies.

Not by my fault, I don't call anyone names.

You have, many a time, but no, let's see where this is going.

(03-09-2014 01:45 PM)Luminon Wrote:  I don't initiate aggression.

Indeed; you would certainly say so. Since your definitions of such pass beyond subjective and well into self-serving...

Claiming property is inherently aggressive, so there's that.

(03-09-2014 01:45 PM)Luminon Wrote:  If other people verbally attack me for peaceful activities (such as debating philosophy), well, that's a dealbreaker and I'm glad to have them identified.

I invite you, once again, to consult the archives. I, for example, was quite polite and patient with you to begin with - the last shreds of which evaporated when you decided to assert that the only reason I could possibly disagree with you even slightly about anything was that I must be repressing childhood abuse.

Indeed, for the most part most of the comments here are directed towards your monumental ignorance. That is not an attack; it is a statement of observation.

On which topic...
(03-09-2014 01:45 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Btw, "Evidence is evidence" is a tautology, which is a logical error, not an actual definition.

Tautologies are not erroneous. They're just tautological.

Thanks for being such a self-demonstrating article, ol' Lumi.

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like cjlr's post
03-09-2014, 03:27 PM
No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
Luminon, remind me again what you had hoped to accomplish with this thread. How would you rate your success?

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-09-2014, 03:35 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(03-09-2014 03:27 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Luminon, remind me again what you had hoped to accomplish with this thread.

Masturbation.

(03-09-2014 03:27 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  How would you rate your success?

11/10.

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like cjlr's post
03-09-2014, 04:34 PM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2014 05:01 PM by Luminon.)
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(03-09-2014 02:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  There are statements that are neither true nor false. They may be lacking information, they may be undecidable, they may be badly formed, they may be opinion.
None of this is three-valued, nor logic. Opinions and other cultural content is not rationally or behaviorally (morally) obligatory. I am talking now only about the obligatory things from which there are only scientific, empirical exceptions, such as biological brain differences.

The non-obligatory things are fun but it is immoral to make them obligatory, to force them upon people to accept or obey.

(03-09-2014 02:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  
Quote:Which least-valued logic is universal, axiomatic to existence of all things? Two-valued or three-valued?

Neither.
So how many possible answers are there to the question, "does reality exist?"

(03-09-2014 03:27 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Luminon, remind me again what you had hoped to accomplish with this thread. How would you rate your success?
I hope to clearly identify people who weren't and never will be my friends, if I act like me, no pretense. I want to restore my capacity of irritation and contempt so that I will not tolerate a personal presence of this kind of people in the future. You can think of it as a complement to my therapy journaling.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-09-2014, 05:51 PM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2014 05:57 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(03-09-2014 04:34 PM)Luminon Wrote:  So how many possible answers are there to the question, "does reality exist?"

At least three. Yes, no, and who the fuck knows. And that is the essence of the open-world assumption that most all of computer science now adopts. A statement is neither true nor false unless it has explicitly been asserted as such. Otherwise it's who the fuck knows.

(03-09-2014 01:15 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Can you show me a three-valued logic in natural language, i.e. can it be a first perception of reality? What other applications does this logic have?

Most all of computer science and the world wide web.

You really suck at this.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like GirlyMan's post
03-09-2014, 08:27 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(03-09-2014 04:34 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(03-09-2014 02:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  There are statements that are neither true nor false. They may be lacking information, they may be undecidable, they may be badly formed, they may be opinion.
None of this is three-valued, nor logic.

Except it is both. True, undecidable, false; three values used in logical formulation and argument.

You think you know subjects, but you know fractions of subjects.

If you're not going to read a book, at least read a Wikipedia article. Or is even that just too difficult? Consider

Quote:Opinions and other cultural content is not rationally or behaviorally (morally) obligatory. I am talking now only about the obligatory things from which there are only scientific, empirical exceptions, such as biological brain differences.

The non-obligatory things are fun but it is immoral to make them obligatory, to force them upon people to accept or obey.

The master of non sequitur has outdone himself. That is so off the mark, it is not even wrong.

Quote:
(03-09-2014 02:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  Neither.
So how many possible answers are there to the question, "does reality exist?"

There are as many as there are definitions of 'reality'. But that is likely far too nuanced for you. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Chas's post
04-09-2014, 04:05 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(03-09-2014 08:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-09-2014 04:34 PM)Luminon Wrote:  None of this is three-valued, nor logic.

Except it is both. True, undecidable, false; three values used in logical formulation and argument.

You think you know subjects, but you know fractions of subjects.
Facepalm Nope, you don't know what I'm talking about. Rational realm. Equations, where both sides of the equation are fully known and no extra information is needed.

Undecidable is not a real value, it is an empirical fault of computing environment, that some needed information is lacking. It's a bug, not a feature.

(03-09-2014 08:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  If you're not going to read a book, at least read a Wikipedia article. Or is even that just too difficult? Consider
I do not deny the existence or validity of more-valued logic. After all, my DNA runs on a four-valued logic of AGCT. And my brain runs on analog logic of synapses of various strength, 10,000 per neuron or so.
It's you who doesn't understand that two-valued logic is the basis of existence. Therefore, you can easily be hoodwinked about the most basic questions that only have two answers, by injecting political agenda in between.

(03-09-2014 08:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  The master of non sequitur has outdone himself. That is so off the mark, it is not even wrong.
That's the sign you don't understand something. Do you encounter this feeling often?

(03-09-2014 08:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  
Quote: So how many possible answers are there to the question, "does reality exist?"

There are as many as there are definitions of 'reality'. But that is likely far too nuanced for you. Drinking Beverage
More definitions does not mean more realities, it only means a skipped philosophy class. Philosophy by definition refers to the reality as a whole, all it needs is one reference, for the purpose of not being obtuse and getting the hell on to important questions.

(03-09-2014 05:51 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-09-2014 04:34 PM)Luminon Wrote:  So how many possible answers are there to the question, "does reality exist?"

At least three. Yes, no, and who the fuck knows. And that is the essence of the open-world assumption that most all of computer science now adopts. A statement is neither true nor false unless it has explicitly been asserted as such. Otherwise it's who the fuck knows.
Fuck, no. Anything else but YES to that question is a self-detonating statement. There is no reality but one. Doubt any single thing you want, but if you doubt reality, that includes you and I will doubt you.

(03-09-2014 05:51 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Most all of computer science and the world wide web.

You really suck at this.
I asked about natural language, not computer language. You really suck at answering. Natural language in a natural environment, not an artificial language in artificial environment that is another layer of abstraction on top of the natural world and has more flaws because of it.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-09-2014, 07:25 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(04-09-2014 04:05 AM)Luminon Wrote:  I asked about natural language, not computer language.

That was natural language you putz.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like GirlyMan's post
10-09-2014, 08:51 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
I am extreme Left, but what is labeled as Left Wing on the OP closely resembles what we call Blue Dog Democrats (which is why I decided to switch over to the Green Party) here in the States. So basically you have two right wing categories and the libertarians.....just a libertarian PR piece.

This is how messed up politics are in America...Obama, a President touted as being a liberal, has the same conservatives views I once held when I voted Republican. Sometimes I think Obama would have been elected as a conservative over Reagan for the GOP primaries.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-09-2014, 03:24 PM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2014 03:30 PM by Luminon.)
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(10-09-2014 08:51 PM)Dunkleweizen Wrote:  I am extreme Left, but what is labeled as Left Wing on the OP closely resembles what we call Blue Dog Democrats (which is why I decided to switch over to the Green Party) here in the States. So basically you have two right wing categories and the libertarians.....just a libertarian PR piece.

This is how messed up politics are in America...Obama, a President touted as being a liberal, has the same conservatives views I once held when I voted Republican. Sometimes I think Obama would have been elected as a conservative over Reagan for the GOP primaries.
I agree, in America liberal means the opposite of what in Europe. It means taking one's liberties with other people's property. Which is done by the means of state violence. Violence is something that Communism and Fascism have in common - and all other forms of state. Everything except voluntary association uses the Fascist/Communist instrument (violence). Even your regular run of the mill liberal democracy is fundamentally run the initiation of violence against peaceful people. Democracy is like Windows Millenium Edition - lots of fancy graphical user interface, but there is still the ancient and primitive MS DOS running beneath it all.

Basically, I don't care if you're left or right. I think the left is rather weak on economical theory, but I have some suggestions that leftists might like. What really worries me is the vertical axis. Either you are on the very bottom with me, or you support initiation of violence against me for peaceful activities - just because some other people don't like it and they write it on paper. The first question is, what happens (eventually) if I disobey?
[Image: Political_chart.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: