Poll: Allah, Yahweh, atheist? Left wing, right wing, no wing?
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No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
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01-08-2014, 06:13 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
Right. Well, you go ahead with your lil' ol' plan to save the world and I'll go ahead with mine, which is significantly more violent than yours and involves the blood of kittens and puppies. And of course lots of government. In fact the first act of my government will be to nuke you anarchists to kingdom come Smile And hey, I can't nuke you all right? Beep! Wrong! More than enough nukes to go round Smile Oh, oh, and *then* I'll make it a rule that everyone has to not just spank, but *beat* their kids every day. That'll learn 'em manners.

Then we will burn the works of all the great philosophers, especially all the ones with any opinions on bringing up kids.

After that I think I'll tax everyone 99% of their total worth, 'cos I'm the fucking government and I have the monopoly on violence. Anyone who fails to comply will be spanked.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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01-08-2014, 06:27 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
You say the IRS is violent (which in some regards they are, if you don't pay your taxes they will eventually take all your shit or lock you up depending on the laws of your country), but I don't see this as an issue.
Everyone should have to pay taxes, it's a matter of being equal. It's an example where the good of the many outweigh the few.
If you don't wanna pay taxes than tough shit, you still benefit from police, firefighters, roads, military etc.. etc..

I don't see why forcing people to pay their fair share as an outrageous breach of human rights.
In fact, I think if you refuse to pay taxes than you are breaching my human rights of being able to live in a safe, healthy etc.. environment. And in this case, my human rights of living in a health, safe etc.. environment supersede your human rights of "but I don't wanna!!!, it's not fair!! wawawawawawawawa!!!!! Sadcryface2 " bullshit.


And if you think society can operate without a) government and b) a money system (I'm not sure if you said money, but people like you usually include money so I'm rolling with it), without replacing them for something else if not the exact same thing than you are a fucking ignorant fuck who shouldn't be talking about this shit because you don't know anything about it.
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01-08-2014, 06:31 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 06:13 AM)morondog Wrote:  Right. Well, you go ahead with your lil' ol' plan to save the world and I'll go ahead with mine, which is significantly more violent than yours and involves the blood of kittens and puppies. And of course lots of government. In fact the first act of my government will be to nuke you anarchists to kingdom come Smile And hey, I can't nuke you all right? Beep! Wrong! More than enough nukes to go round Smile Oh, oh, and *then* I'll make it a rule that everyone has to not just spank, but *beat* their kids every day. That'll learn 'em manners.

Then we will burn the works of all the great philosophers, especially all the ones with any opinions on bringing up kids.

After that I think I'll tax everyone 99% of their total worth, 'cos I'm the fucking government and I have the monopoly on violence. Anyone who fails to comply will be spanked.
Well, whatever, I think joking distances us from this unpleasant and awkward topic. But you have said before that you don't think kids should be spanked and that is wonderful. This is something you can do in spite of the state. Parenting is much easier and enjoyable if it's a relationship, not a Stanford experiment. Children are such a huge investment of feelings and money yet scientists have found parents treat them incredibly badly. After that, the government just steps into the role when they grow up. Who obeys parents without question, will obey government without question.

But if we want kids to study and pass exams, we should go an example! We should read up on the things we claim. So my advice is to pick up a book or a dozen books on peaceful parenting (like Dr Laura Markham), because just wishing isn't enough. You don't get driver's license just for wishing and parenting is even more difficult.
http://www.ahaparenting.com/peaceful-parent-happy-kids
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01-08-2014, 06:35 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
Are you a parent?
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01-08-2014, 06:50 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 06:27 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  You say the IRS is violent (which in some regards they are, if you don't pay your taxes they will eventually take all your shit or lock you up depending on the laws of your country), but I don't see this as an issue.
Everyone should have to pay Church tithes, it's a matter of being equal.
Here. I fixed it for ya.

(01-08-2014 06:27 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  It's an example where the good of the many outweigh the few.
What kind of good? Who gets to decide which good? Who will pick the many and who will pick the few? Where is an objective evidence that the good, the many and the few are picked correctly? Correctly compared to what? You're not making any sense. Human needs are diverse. The greatest yet most ignored minority is the individual.

(01-08-2014 06:27 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  If you don't wanna pay taxes than tough shit, you still benefit from police, firefighters, roads, military etc.. etc..
When Nelson Mandela got arrested and he got food from the jailers, does that mean he implicitly approved and benefited from the apartheid?

(01-08-2014 06:27 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  I don't see why forcing people to pay their fair share as an outrageous breach of human rights.
In fact, I think if you refuse to pay taxes than you are breaching my human rights of being able to live in a safe, healthy etc.. environment. And in this case, my human rights of living in a health, safe etc.. environment supersede your human rights of "but I don't wanna!!!, it's not fair!! wawawawawawawawa!!!!! Sadcryface2 " bullshit.
If taxes were good, there would be no forcing. If there is forcing, there is no need for further discussion. You want me shot for disagreement with you about taxes.

(01-08-2014 06:27 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  And if you think society can operate without a) government and b) a money system (I'm not sure if you said money, but people like you usually include money so I'm rolling with it), without replacing them for something else if not the exact same thing than you are a fucking ignorant fuck who shouldn't be talking about this shit because you don't know anything about it.
I did not say money. Money system is much better than government. It is truly democratic and not easy to replace. I will talk about replacing the money system right after we won't be forced to pay some random people calling themselves the government.

(01-08-2014 06:35 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Are you a parent?
No, but I have a 20 years of experience of dealing with parents.
Do I have to be a woman to say that violence against women is wrong? Do I have to be black to say that slavery is wrong?
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01-08-2014, 06:54 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 06:35 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Are you a parent?
You really had to ask that question? Laugh out load

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01-08-2014, 07:11 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 04:31 AM)Luminon Wrote:  Condemning violence against children meant a fundamental change of my relationship to my parents (who were violent against me) and it was very painful and stressful, to put it mildly.

Ahh, puzzle pieces coming together.

I was abused, as were many others. But, I look at some kids and how they act and treat others and I just think, "Damn those kids need(ed) a good spanking." Note that my abuse was not spanking, nor do I think spanking is always abuse. And really, kids are all different. For some kids it may be one of the better solutions to discipline. Depends on the child.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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01-08-2014, 07:13 AM
Re: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
Another amusing aspect I've never seen Luminon touch upon is the role religious organizations would attempt to fill in government absence.

They wouldn't shrink or stay the same.. No they would exercise their wealth and power to greater extents when given more range to grow and control peoples lives. That's why I've been swayed away from Ron Paul in the past when you actually hear out a lot if his deeper reasoning. Some want less government to allow the religious to exercise their ability to "aid."

I don't consider this a scare tactic to say force is better, but it's an openly possible consequence to anyone that imagines societies patterns. As I've said before, it's not government that's the issue: it's unregulated power, arrogance, and presuming to be right in various circumstances that leads to the issues.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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01-08-2014, 07:15 AM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2014 07:20 AM by Luminon.)
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 07:11 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 04:31 AM)Luminon Wrote:  Condemning violence against children meant a fundamental change of my relationship to my parents (who were violent against me) and it was very painful and stressful, to put it mildly.

Ahh, puzzle pieces coming together.

I was abused, as were many others. But, I look at some kids and how they act and treat others and I just think, "Damn those kids need(ed) a good assaulting." Note that my abuse was not assault, nor do I think assault is always abuse. And really, kids are all different. For some kids it may be one of the better solutions to assault. Depends on the child.
That's what I thought before. But look, I fixed it for you. If you need to use euphemisms like spanking for what is a physical assault against a smaller, helpless person, then it's probably your conscience. Children are persons and they have the same human rights. Nobody deserves to be attacked and hit. If children don't understand, then hitting them can not make them understand. We don't hit old, senile people if they don't understand either.
I know it doesn't come easy, it's called normalization of abuse and Stockholm syndrome, empathy with the abuser, belief in our badness for survival in presence of an abuser we can't leave.
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01-08-2014, 08:23 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 03:33 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 03:20 AM)Luminon Wrote:  Rev is a complete cunt-faced liar.
I have always advocated non-aggression. Non-aggression means that people should pay other people for service directly, not through a violent agency called IRS.
Also, as a method of social revolution I have advocated peaceful parenting of children, without punishments. Children do not owe us respect and obedience just for squirting them out and government does not deserve respect and obedience just for being there as a legal fiction when we were born.


(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  As for guns...meh. That is not necessary. America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense - and all the cops went fully paramilitary anyway.

That is you advocating for the murder of government officials. Which also makes you a liar. If you do not understand why this is not an ok thing to say you need to reexamine your morals.

Silly Revenant.

Violence is only bad when it's against him. It's A-OK when it serves him.

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