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No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
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01-08-2014, 08:44 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 08:23 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Silly Revenant.

Violence is only bad when it's against him. It's A-OK when it serves him.
Liar liar pants on fire.
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01-08-2014, 08:45 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
Hah, you are an interesting fellow if in your mind you switch spanking and assault without seeing the difference.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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01-08-2014, 08:47 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 08:23 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 03:33 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  That is you advocating for the murder of government officials. Which also makes you a liar. If you do not understand why this is not an ok thing to say you need to reexamine your morals.

Silly Revenant.

Violence is only bad when it's against him. It's A-OK when it serves him.

Disciplining children is abuse but murdering government employees because you have a nutcase political cult is a-ok in Lummys world.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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01-08-2014, 08:48 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  As for guns...meh. That is not necessary. America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense - and all the cops went fully paramilitary anyway.

This has been pushed back a couple pages. Gotta keep his hypocrisy current.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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01-08-2014, 08:50 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 08:44 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 08:23 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Silly Revenant.

Violence is only bad when it's against him. It's A-OK when it serves him.
Liar liar pants on fire.

Nope, sorry. Your exact words beg to differ.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  As for guns...meh. That is not necessary. America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense - and all the cops went fully paramilitary anyway.

Whoops! Looks like you're perfectly fine with violence when it suits you.

... this is my signature!
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01-08-2014, 09:01 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
That is anarchist violence directed towards government officials, which is *always* OK, even if you're not an anarchist.

Fuck sakes Rolleyes

Look, Lumi, even you have got to admit that your anarchist utopia will not exist *ever*. Let's list what has to happen:

- Everyone has to decide that the old central government way of doing things is OUT.
- Trade has to somehow keep going.
- Parents universally have to decide not to spank their kids ever again. If even a few still do this then evil men ™ will be created.
- Somehow government in any form will be prevented from re-forming. You claim the magic of not-spanking will achieve this.

- Abuse of the new world order by the powerful will be prevented by sprinkling fairy dust on everyone. Oh and not-spanking them. And shooting all IRS employees in "self-defence".

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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01-08-2014, 09:04 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 08:45 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  Hah, you are an interesting fellow if in your mind you switch spanking and assault without seeing the difference.
I have to look at things empirically, as they are, not as the cultural buzzwords and prejudices want us to feel about them.
Yes, there is a difference. With assault there is some equality of age, strength and legal rights. Even a physically disabled person has more options for legal and personal defense than a child. I was de-sensitized not to see spanking as an assault, because to have empathy with myself as a victim would mean to see my parents as abusers. And I could not afford to even think of that while I lived with them, I knew all their love was conditional.
The problem is, people carry this normalization forever and thus they repeat the abuse on their own children. As the writer Joe Abercrombie said, people do as they are done to and then they order others to do. I can only add, this can be overcome with a great effort, therapy and commitment to virtue.
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01-08-2014, 09:05 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
Quote:Here. I fixed it for ya.

Except there's a huge difference between religion and government...
Religion is based of religious dogma and due to a lack of scientific proof requires "faith" (blind ignorance). Religion is a person choice.

Government runs the country. You can't run the country without a government. Even under true communism you need people to organize and manage certain aspects of the state which is effectively a government.

Complete anarchism, as the others have pointed out, leads to.. well.. anarchism.
You want to talk about reducing violence but advocate doing away with a police force and other things that maintain order? Are you kidding me?

Quote:Who gets to decide which good? Who will pick the many and who will pick the few?

Depends on the type of government.
And under your proposed anarchism, decisions will still need to be made regarding certain aspects. Who gets to decide which good? Who will pick the many and who will pick the few?

Quote:Where is an objective evidence that the good, the many and the few are picked correctly? Correctly compared to what?

There is no certainty that they were picked correctly, that is why we have elections every 3-5 years.
And how is anarchism in any way shape or form a different and better system?

Quote:You're not making any sense.

Pot, kettle, black.

Quote:When Nelson Mandela got arrested and he got food from the jailers, does that mean he implicitly approved and benefited from the apartheid?

I'm not saying you have to like it, I'm saying tough shit if you don't.
At least people paid their taxes to the South African government so they could afford to feed Nelson Mandela...

Quote:If taxes were good, there would be no forcing.

For the majority there isn't. There is only forcing of a very few because the vast majority of people understand the importance of taxes, even if they don't like paying them they know why they do.
Humans are cunts, they're selfish and they're greedy. That's why "force" is required sometimes.

Quote:If there is forcing, there is no need for further discussion.

Why? Again, you seem to think that forcing people to pay taxes is the absolutely worst crime that anyone can ever do to someone. It's not.
You've failed to justify why the IRS forcing you to pay your taxes is a bad thing.
What? because you say so? Bitch please.
Taxes are important, we need taxes to pay for shit people need to live in a modern society comfortably. Everyone benefits and so everyone should pay. If force is required, than that is the price we pay.

Besides, if it's a "but I earned that money" bullshit reason, if everyone was to get their full payed amount inflation would rise and prices would increase to compensate. If you could buy 2 apples and an orange with your paycheck before, you'll still only be able to buy 2 apples and an orange.

Quote:You want me shot for disagreement with you about taxes.

Where did I say that? Nowhere. Don't put words in my mouth.

Quote:It is truly democratic and not easy to replace.

Impossible to replace short of going back to the barter system.

Quote:No, but I have a 20 years of experience of dealing with parents.

Your own parents can hardly be considered experience.


I don't think you understand what a government does and is.



Quote:You really had to ask that question? Laugh out load

Well he was talking about child abuse and I wanted to make sure he didn't have kids and was teaching them this filth. Would have come across as rather hypocritical.
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01-08-2014, 10:09 AM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2014 10:20 AM by Adrianime.)
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 09:04 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 08:45 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  Hah, you are an interesting fellow if in your mind you switch spanking and assault without seeing the difference.
I have to look at things empirically, as they are, not as the cultural buzzwords and prejudices want us to feel about them.
Yes, there is a difference. With assault there is some equality of age, strength and legal rights. Even a physically disabled person has more options for legal and personal defense than a child. I was de-sensitized not to see spanking as an assault, because to have empathy with myself as a victim would mean to see my parents as abusers. And I could not afford to even think of that while I lived with them, I knew all their love was conditional.
The problem is, people carry this normalization forever and thus they repeat the abuse on their own children. As the writer Joe Abercrombie said, people do as they are done to and then they order others to do. I can only add, this can be overcome with a great effort, therapy and commitment to virtue.

A bit of therapy may help with these issues from your childhood.

I'll throw in that spanking CAN be abusive or even assault depending on how it's done. I'll even admit that I likely will not spank my own children (unless they do not respond to other forms of discipline), furthermore if they don't respond to spanking, resorting to "spanking them harder" is not going to solve the problem either. As I said, kids are different, I'm from a family of 8 kids and I have 12 nieces and nephews. I've seen many kinds of methods of raising kids (One of my sisters is even a psychologist who specializes in childhood development). What works for one kid is not guaranteed to work on another.

A blanket assertion that spanking is assault is ridiculous. It's a disciplinary measure that you don't agree with, sure. That's fine.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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01-08-2014, 10:15 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 09:01 AM)morondog Wrote:  That is anarchist violence directed towards government officials, which is *always* OK, even if you're not an anarchist.
Anarchism is voluntarism, the opposite of violence. Voluntarism is all about non-aggression principle.

(01-08-2014 09:01 AM)morondog Wrote:  Fuck sakes Rolleyes

Look, Lumi, even you have got to admit that your anarchist utopia will not exist *ever*. Let's list what has to happen:
So... Black slaves got their utopia with abolition of slavery. Women got their utopia with voting and equal rights. Evangelicals got their utopia with Reformation. Gays got their utopia with gay marriage. Atheists got their utopia with separation of Church and state. Everywhere I look, people are getting their utopias. Da fuq, man?

Anyway, the anarchist utopia is not just for us voluntarists, it is mainly for children. The right of children to not be assaulted, drugged, kept in useless schools for all childhood, and impoverished by horrendous national debt. The government is built on prejudice against children and on people broken early on, seeking big parent in form of the state. Childism is a concept from the 70's, but unlike racism and chauvinism, it still waits for recognition.

(01-08-2014 09:01 AM)morondog Wrote:  - Everyone has to decide that the old central government way of doing things is OUT.
That is bullshit, it's all-or-none thinking.
Nope. If you want ice cream, buy your own damn ice cream, but don't force others to pay for it. If you want to kiss the Lincoln statue, go kiss the Lincoln statue, don't force others to do it. Got it?

(01-08-2014 09:01 AM)morondog Wrote:  - Trade has to somehow keep going.
Laugh out load Laugh out load Laugh out load Business will go much, much better if there are no politicians to take a cut on every trade and impose thousands of regulations.

(01-08-2014 09:01 AM)morondog Wrote:  - Parents universally have to decide not to spank their kids ever again. If even a few still do this then evil men ™ will be created.

Evil men may be generated, but the first thing we have to make sure of, is that none of them gets elected into government. That would be a wonderful start. The only way that is possible is burned ground tactics - no government, only competing companies that provide services.
People can deal with evil men rather easily if they don't control the US banks, army, police and nuclear weapons.

(01-08-2014 09:01 AM)morondog Wrote:  - Somehow government in any form will be prevented from re-forming. You claim the magic of not-spanking will achieve this.
Science says. Don't damage people's brains by beating them up as a parent and they will not flock to lick the boot that kicks them.

(01-08-2014 09:01 AM)morondog Wrote:  - Abuse of the new world order by the powerful will be prevented by sprinkling fairy dust on everyone. Oh and not-spanking them. And shooting all IRS employees in "self-defence".
Hey, stow that. If the IRS employees did not have blue costumes on, you would tell no difference between them and a criminal gang. The action is the same, attacking people who don't attack anybody. Putting on a blue costume does not make the attack moral, any more than putting on a pink costume.
Of course, almost nobody can resist IRS, so I admit that, keep paying taxes and spread the word, that's the most I can do.
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