Poll: Allah, Yahweh, atheist? Left wing, right wing, no wing?
Left wing
Right wing
No wing
[Show Results]
 
No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
01-08-2014, 01:50 PM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2014 01:56 PM by Luminon.)
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 10:35 AM)Res Publica Wrote:  Lumi, you claim to accept science and all, but you seem to be insisting that the only reason people use violence is because they got spanked as a child. Do you really think that if no one spanked their children there would be no violence?
That is a simplistic way to put it. Not spanking isn't enough, parenting is a 99 % preparation and negotiation.
People forget that children aren't robots, they are copy monkeys. Doesn't matter what you tell them, it matters what you do. Whatever is done unto children, such as violence, they either copy the violence or are so broken by it that they are unable to stand against it and will seek a future spouse who is violent, because that is the only thing they know.

(01-08-2014 10:35 AM)Res Publica Wrote:  And secondly, without a state to enforce laws how would people be kept from spanking?
By talking to them and by being horrified about their domestic violence against children, by expressing social disapproval and disgust. By raising eyebrows and frowning. Social disapproval is a great force. I don't mean on the internet, I mean in real life, face to face.
People would rather go to war and get killed than to see frowns on their mothers' faces wondering why they didn't go to war to fight for freedom like everyone else.


Also, in the monarchy thread I asked this;
(01-08-2014 09:11 AM)Res Publica Wrote:  You do have a point that pure democracy is not a good system, because it becomes mod rule, but without the ability to appoint and remove our leaders, what is to prevent tyranny? The best system balances democracy with constitutional protection of unpopular opinions, like what America has.

How do you propose leaders be kept in check if the people have no mechanism with which to remove them? In your lazise-faire utopia why wouldn't some billionaire hire a private army and install himself as dictator? What mechanisms are in place to prevent that?
There is no way to keep leaders in check. The only way to prevent that is not to have any leaders, just job market.
Billionaires aren't idiots. If you'd give it just a moment of thought, you'd think of a plenty of arguments why that is a bad idea. How much money will do you any good for getting killed?

(01-08-2014 10:35 AM)Res Publica Wrote:  I would like a response as to what would keep a multi-billionaire from hiring a private military and setting up a totalitarian regime. Right now we have a state that would forbid him from obtaining that military and could also forcibly stop him if he tried. What will stop him in your society?
Please stop slandering billionaires. They're generally nice people and certainly don't want anyone killed. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Billionaires got their money by not killing people, so they will keep not killing people in the future, especially since it's so damn profitable. Politicians on the other hand, killed more than 200 million people during the 20th century. Please get your priorities straight.

(01-08-2014 12:03 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Lumi.. You listed a bunch of utopias that don't exist, except for a couple in certain areas. Neither women, gays, or blacks/any minority under white established areas have gotten a presence of equality. Do you honestly think they've gotten their utopia? And which Christian reformations.. There has been multiple, some desired their utopia being revelations. That hasn't happened either.

It's quite scary that you continue to state assertions and don't seem to indicate a critical sense of acknowledging you may be wrong.
Wrong about what? Not hitting? Do you like to get beaten up? I guess not. Neither do I. So what do you say, we need a monopoly on violence so there is less violence? That's like RP up here saying that without mass-murdering politicians, billionaires would start with mass murder.

Tell that to atheists who try to win public recognition in Bible belt. Tell that to Aron Ra in Texas. (he's a big scary long-haired biker guy) Utopia or not (I know, bad word), social change and modernization is real. The world is slowly pushed by activism from groups of people getting hit to groups of people not getting hit.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-08-2014, 01:54 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  As for guns...meh. That is not necessary. America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense - and all the cops went fully paramilitary anyway.

Still not going to defend this stance Lummy? I am a liar huh? Defend your fucking words coward.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-08-2014, 02:37 PM (This post was last modified: 01-08-2014 02:44 PM by Luminon.)
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 01:54 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  As for guns...meh. That is not necessary. America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense - and all the cops went fully paramilitary anyway.

Still not going to defend this stance Lummy? I am a liar huh? Defend your fucking words coward.
This is not a stance or a personal statement of any kind. It's Americans who advocate killing government employees every 4th July when they celebrate the Independence war. Talk to them, it's their national custom! I was just wondering about that. The Boston tea party started because the Britain imposed a 3% tax on tea. People threw tea into the sea and started the war against their British colonial government. 13 years later George Washington imposed a 25 % tax on whiskey in Tennessee and suddenly there was no riot.
No Tennessee whiskey drinking. Da fuq?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-08-2014, 02:39 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 01:50 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Also, in the monarchy thread I asked this;
(01-08-2014 09:11 AM)Res Publica Wrote:  You do have a point that pure democracy is not a good system, because it becomes mod rule, but without the ability to appoint and remove our leaders, what is to prevent tyranny? The best system balances democracy with constitutional protection of unpopular opinions, like what America has.

How do you propose leaders be kept in check if the people have no mechanism with which to remove them? In your lazise-faire utopia why wouldn't some billionaire hire a private army and install himself as dictator? What mechanisms are in place to prevent that?
There is no way to keep leaders in check. The only way to prevent that is not to have any leaders, just job market.
Billionaires aren't idiots. If you'd give it just a moment of thought, you'd think of a plenty of arguments why that is a bad idea. How much money will do you any good for getting killed?

If you don't think markets have leaders, you're an idiot. And if you don't understand how an unregulated market tends towards centralisation, read a book.

(01-08-2014 01:50 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 10:35 AM)Res Publica Wrote:  I would like a response as to what would keep a multi-billionaire from hiring a private military and setting up a totalitarian regime. Right now we have a state that would forbid him from obtaining that military and could also forcibly stop him if he tried. What will stop him in your society?
Please stop slandering billionaires. They're generally nice people and certainly don't want anyone killed. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Billionaires got their money by not killing people, so they will keep not killing people in the future, especially since it's so damn profitable. Politicians on the other hand, killed more than 200 million people during the 20th century. Please get your priorities straight.

Well, there we go with lunatic reductivist dichotomies again. Protip: the world is not separated into binary categories of "things you like" and "things you don't like".

In a world where only capital is power (note: this is what you are advocating), the rich are all-powerful. Period.

No doubt you'd put your trust in the Magical Thinking™ honour system to keep anybody from ever abusing any sort of power ever. Unfortunately the real world does not operate by your moon logic, but by actual facts and statistics: if something can go wrong, it eventually will.

(01-08-2014 01:50 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Wrong about what? Not hitting? Do you like to get beaten up? I guess not. Neither do I. So what do you say, we need a monopoly on violence so there is less violence? That's like RP up here saying that without mass-murdering politicians, billionaires would start with mass murder.

To put this very generously, you appear not to understand how societies function.

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like cjlr's post
01-08-2014, 02:43 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 02:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 01:54 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Still not going to defend this stance Lummy? I am a liar huh? Defend your fucking words coward.
This is not a stance or a personal statement of any kind. It's Americans who advocate killing government employees every 4th July when they celebrate the Independence war. Talk to them, it's their national custom! I was just wondering about that.

Umm bullshit on all of that. Saying it is a shame people aren't killing IRS agents is a stand on your part. The rest of this just does not parse as none of it is related in any way to reality. So I see you are going to continue to play victim. Well these words are going to haunt you. Woofs thought Muffs was bad, I am your shadow every thread you post in this quote will follow. You cannot run from this.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-08-2014, 02:44 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 02:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 01:54 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Still not going to defend this stance Lummy? I am a liar huh? Defend your fucking words coward.
This is not a stance or a personal statement of any kind.

No, it sure as heck is.

In an extraordinary generosity of spirit, I grant that it might not be what you intended so say. But there is no possible way to interpret the statement as it stands as anything other than approval.

(01-08-2014 02:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  It's Americans who advocate killing government employees every 4th July when they celebrate the Independence war. Talk to them, it's their national custom! I was just wondering about that. The Boston tea party started because the Britain imposed a 3% tax on tea. People threw tea into the sea and started the war against their British colonial government. 13 years later George Washington imposed a 25 % tax on whiskey in Tennessee and suddenly there was no riot.
No Tennessee whiskey drinking. Da fuq?

So what I'm getting from this is that either you don't understand history, or you're just being completely disingenuous for shits and giggles. Not that a facile "NO U MERIKKA" response is worth anything.

Either way, read a book.

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes cjlr's post
01-08-2014, 02:47 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 02:43 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Umm bullshit on all of that. Saying it is a shame people aren't killing IRS agents is a stand on your part. The rest of this just does not parse as none of it is related in any way to reality. So I see you are going to continue to play victim. Well these words are going to haunt you. Woofs thought Muffs was bad, I am your shadow every thread you post in this quote will follow. You cannot run from this.
You idiot, I did not advocate anything and no word about shame either. You are delusional.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-08-2014, 02:49 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 02:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 01:54 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Still not going to defend this stance Lummy? I am a liar huh? Defend your fucking words coward.
This is not a stance or a personal statement of any kind. It's Americans who advocate killing government employees every 4th July when they celebrate the Independence war. Talk to them, it's their national custom! I was just wondering about that. The Boston tea party started because the Britain imposed a 3% tax on tea. People threw tea into the sea and started the war against their British colonial government. 13 years later George Washington imposed a 25 % tax on whiskey in Tennessee and suddenly there was no riot.
No Tennessee whiskey drinking. Da fuq?

I see more history you do not understand. First off the Boston Tea Party was not the cause of the American revolution (it was a very minor event actually and is only remembered because it sounds catchy) if any single event was it would have been the Boston Massacre but you have probably never even heard of that. I also see you do not understand the problem was not Taxation but the second half of the slogan Without Representation none of the founders thought taxes in and of themself were a bad thing they just did not like having rules written for them without any input. Much like your anarchy system would do to everyone who cannot afford a personal army.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Revenant77x's post
01-08-2014, 02:51 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 02:44 PM)cjlr Wrote:  No, it sure as heck is.

In an extraordinary generosity of spirit, I grant that it might not be what you intended so say. But there is no possible way to interpret the statement as it stands as anything other than approval.
I approve only of defense against aggression, nothing else. Armed parties raiding homes are immoral, no matter what colors do they wear. But under no circumstances should anyone go and initiate aggression. There is this non-aggression principle thing.

(01-08-2014 02:44 PM)cjlr Wrote:  So what I'm getting from this is that either you don't understand history, or you're just being completely disingenuous for shits and giggles. Not that a facile "NO U MERIKKA" response is worth anything.

Either way, read a book.
I'm going to ignore this as always, because you never say which book, which chapter, which page... [citation needed]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-08-2014, 02:56 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(01-08-2014 02:47 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 02:43 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Umm bullshit on all of that. Saying it is a shame people aren't killing IRS agents is a stand on your part. The rest of this just does not parse as none of it is related in any way to reality. So I see you are going to continue to play victim. Well these words are going to haunt you. Woofs thought Muffs was bad, I am your shadow every thread you post in this quote will follow. You cannot run from this.
You idiot, I did not advocate anything and no word about shame either. You are delusional.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  As for guns...meh. That is not necessary. America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense - and all the cops went fully paramilitary anyway.

This is you advocating assaulting government employees for doing there job. One of us is delusional but it aint me pal.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: