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No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
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11-08-2014, 03:26 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(11-08-2014 02:52 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Doesn't seem wise trying to judge the popularity of a message based on number of podcasts downloaded or even web hits. Just because people are exposed to an idea doesn't mean they agree with it. Case in point: your ideas in this forum thread.
Fair point. I don't know the actual statistics and I can't look them up easily. I just know that Molyneux recently hired a third full time employee to research facts for his show. He says FDR is the biggest and best philosophy show in the world, but due to technology, of course.

I have no worries whatsoever that Molyneux would be forgotten. He is both highly popular and highly unpopular. Both are spreading factors, his opponents put a lot of work into criticism. I consider myself one of people competent to criticize him. It's a great inspiration for my master's thesis that I am preparing.
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11-08-2014, 03:33 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
I'd like some answers to my previous questions Lumo me old mate. Specifically:

What makes you think you should be allowed, without consequence, to endanger peoples' lives by
- driving as fast as you like
- selling untreated milk
?

Further, I'm sure you've noticed but in pretty much every taxation scheme those who are poor and can't afford taxes don't have to pay. They also (in some countries) get access to free basic healthcare and education *paid for by other people who can afford it*.

You whining about having to pay taxes says:
- you are privileged enough to earn enough to be required to pay your fair share.
- you are enough of a douchebag to begrudge others less fortunate than you the basic tools that they need to raise themselves out of poverty.

Tell me, in your anarcho-capitalist society, how will a poor, uneducated person ever lift himself out of poverty?

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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11-08-2014, 04:05 PM (This post was last modified: 11-08-2014 04:16 PM by Luminon.)
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(11-08-2014 03:33 PM)morondog Wrote:  I'd like some answers to my previous questions Lumo me old mate. Specifically:

What makes you think you should be allowed, without consequence, to endanger peoples' lives by
- driving as fast as you like
- selling untreated milk
- voting
?
Here, I fixed it for you. Now the question is complete. One of these is initiation of aggression, the other two aren't. With two of these, insurance companies can deal.

(11-08-2014 03:33 PM)morondog Wrote:  Further, I'm sure you've noticed but in pretty much every taxation scheme those who are poor and can't afford taxes don't have to pay. They also (in some countries) get access to free basic healthcare and education *paid for by other people who can afford it*.
How nice, to enslave only the ones strong enough to pick cotton Consider
Of course, the poor pay the most of all. They still pay sales tax. They pay by having the shittiest education imaginable, worse than self-education. They pay by missed economic opportunities from jobs that never occur due to 60 % of money in economy being sucked into public sector. They are kept as livestock of votes, just as the rich are kept as tax livestock.
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(11-08-2014 03:33 PM)morondog Wrote:  You whining about having to pay taxes says:
- you are privileged enough to earn enough to be required to pay your fair share.
- you are enough of a douchebag to begrudge others less fortunate than you the basic tools that they need to raise themselves out of poverty.
Nope. Sales tax, remember? Missed jobs too. Who gets to define the "fair share"? I'll tell you: the same guys who don't pay it. And even if they did, it's their idea, not mine. They could equally say that God wants me to pay church tithes.
By the way, I saw the "basic tools" close up, when my folks spent six years on welfare. There seems to be a tacit agreement that the poor will receive welfare and try to get a job and get off it ASAP, without trying to earn anything extra on the side, through a tax-free organization such 501( c ) or a church. There is someone naive and it's not me Wink

(11-08-2014 03:33 PM)morondog Wrote:  Tell me, in your anarcho-capitalist society, how will a poor, uneducated person ever lift himself out of poverty?
By selling labor, being productive, earning money, buying education, becoming even more productive, earning even more money, buying better education, saving money, investing money, rinse, repeat. The old-fashioned way that eliminated poverty worldwide and lifts thousands of people a day in India and China into the middle class.
Welfare only consumes, produces nothing and keeps the people poor. Free market produces and production lowers prices thus making a higher life standard available to the poorer. Thanks to the remains of free market, what is today poor in the US, was middle class after the WW2. Free market produced wealth that allowed the formation of Sweden and other welfare states through political takeover. (remember Ikea, Ericson, Electrolux, Nokia and other old beacons of northern capitalism)

Btw, I bestow upon thee a better economic education than the government. You're welcome and if you want to send a donation, I'll send you my bank number. If you don't, I will accept that and will send you no threatening letters or no no-knock raids at all.
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11-08-2014, 04:11 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(11-08-2014 04:05 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Btw, I bestow upon thee a better economic education than the government. You're welcome and if you want to send a donation, I'll send you my bank number.

Heh. Coincidentally I am this week a victim of a rather enthusiatic anarchist who thought he'd get the party started before the actual anarcho-capitalist political system was in place. Therefore even if I wanted to, I could not donate. Also, I don't wanna. I can get better education from my own research, and your stuff is biased.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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11-08-2014, 04:13 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(11-08-2014 04:05 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(11-08-2014 03:33 PM)morondog Wrote:  I'd like some answers to my previous questions Lumo me old mate. Specifically:

What makes you think you should be allowed, without consequence, to endanger peoples' lives by
- driving as fast as you like
- selling untreated milk
- voting
?
Here, I fixed it for you. Now the question is complete. One of these is initiation of aggression, the other two aren't. With two of these, insurance companies can deal.

This is the freedom you desire? You don't want voting because in your addled mind it translates to violence, but actual violence that can kill other people whether by negligence or intent, you are happy to condone. Well played.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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11-08-2014, 04:21 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(11-08-2014 04:13 PM)morondog Wrote:  This is the freedom you desire? You don't want voting because in your addled mind it translates to violence, but actual violence that can kill other people whether by negligence or intent, you are happy to condone. Well played.
I can deal with intent, I have a pepper spray. If there was a lot of intent around, I'd start a security company.
What I can't deal with, is army and police forces voted upon whole populations extracting money as ordained by votes. Politicians use votes as a pretext to impose vast violence upon everyone, give out some money as welfare and use the rest as a leverage to borrow and print more, to start wars and strengthen the police state. Nobody can deal with that!
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11-08-2014, 04:24 PM
No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(11-08-2014 04:21 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(11-08-2014 04:13 PM)morondog Wrote:  This is the freedom you desire? You don't want voting because in your addled mind it translates to violence, but actual violence that can kill other people whether by negligence or intent, you are happy to condone. Well played.
I can deal with intent, I have a pepper spray. If there was a lot of intent around, I'd start a security company.
What I can't deal with, is army and police forces voted upon whole populations extracting money as ordained by votes. Politicians use votes as a pretext to impose vast violence upon everyone, give out some money as welfare and use the rest as a leverage to borrow and print more, to start wars and strengthen the police state. Nobody can deal with that!

I'm confused. Are you saying violent anarchy is fine as long as the violent are not profiting? So, as long as someone is raping you for the sheer joy of it and no money is involved its cool?

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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11-08-2014, 04:53 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(11-08-2014 04:24 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  I'm confused. Are you saying violent anarchy is fine as long as the violent are not profiting? So, as long as someone is raping you for the sheer joy of it and no money is involved its cool?
Anarchy is not violent. It is voluntaristic, typically based on capitalism, contracts and insurance of contracts. Security is just another thing that competing companies provide for a modest price, just like justice.
OTOH, a voter can rape the wallets of all the nation and can bring the nation to an edge of drug and poverty disaster through prohibition and welfare schemes that increase poverty immensely by punishing productivity and rewarding idleness.
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11-08-2014, 05:13 PM
No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(11-08-2014 04:53 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(11-08-2014 04:24 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  I'm confused. Are you saying violent anarchy is fine as long as the violent are not profiting? So, as long as someone is raping you for the sheer joy of it and no money is involved its cool?
Anarchy is not violent. It is voluntaristic, typically based on capitalism, contracts and insurance of contracts. Security is just another thing that competing companies provide for a modest price, just like justice.
OTOH, a voter can rape the wallets of all the nation and can bring the nation to an edge of drug and poverty disaster through prohibition and welfare schemes that increase poverty immensely by punishing productivity and rewarding idleness.

Anarchy may not be violent in itself, but there are enough humans who have demonstrated a tendency for violence to make anarchy seem very unhealthy to most people.

Have you ever even been traumatized by another human? Do you really want to give those people free license to treat you however they want whenever they want?

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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11-08-2014, 05:34 PM (This post was last modified: 11-08-2014 05:45 PM by Luminon.)
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(11-08-2014 05:13 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Anarchy may not be violent in itself, but there are enough humans who have demonstrated a tendency for violence to make anarchy seem very unhealthy to most people.
Wonderful! Security business opportunities Consider Most would be of course just local policemen squads gone private security, but soon private individuals would compete and succeed to prevent crime and watch property. If you wish security, you buy it, you choose a security company. Hell, your insurance company will demand you to pay them in order to pay lesser insurance fees.

You want something, you buy it. You see people want to buy something, you start selling it. Economics: the new rocket science, or ancient lost rites of capitalism? Smartass

(11-08-2014 05:13 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Have you ever even been traumatized by another human? Do you really want to give those people free license to treat you however they want whenever they want?
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