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No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
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11-08-2014, 05:50 PM
No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(11-08-2014 05:34 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(11-08-2014 05:13 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Anarchy may not be violent in itself, but there are enough humans who have demonstrated a tendency for violence to make anarchy seem very unhealthy to most people.
Wonderful! Security business opportunities Consider Most would be of course just local policemen squads gone private security, but soon private individuals would compete and succeed to prevent crime and watch property. If you wish security, you buy it, you choose a security company. Hell, your insurance company will demand you to pay them in order to pay lesser insurance fees.

You want something, you buy it. You see people want to buy something, you start selling it. Economics: the new rocket science, or ancient lost rites of capitalism? Smartass

(11-08-2014 05:13 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Have you ever even been traumatized by another human? Do you really want to give those people free license to treat you however they want whenever they want?
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So you're saying "fuck you" to all poor people?

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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11-08-2014, 05:56 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(11-08-2014 05:50 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  
(11-08-2014 05:34 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Wonderful! Security business opportunities Consider Most would be of course just local policemen squads gone private security, but soon private individuals would compete and succeed to prevent crime and watch property. If you wish security, you buy it, you choose a security company. Hell, your insurance company will demand you to pay them in order to pay lesser insurance fees.

You want something, you buy it. You see people want to buy something, you start selling it. Economics: the new rocket science, or ancient lost rites of capitalism? Smartass

[Image: 53508781.jpg]

So you're saying "fuck you" to all poor people?

Not only them, fuck you to anyone not able to raise a private army to protect themselves.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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11-08-2014, 05:59 PM
No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(11-08-2014 05:56 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(11-08-2014 05:50 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  So you're saying "fuck you" to all poor people?

Not only them, fuck you to anyone not able to raise a private army to protect themselves.

Good point. An arms race would ensue with only the wealthiest on top.

So, Luminon is an elitist attempting to convince us of the beauty of his New World Order?

I guess I was narrowly only thinking of my poor self.

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11-08-2014, 06:07 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(11-08-2014 05:59 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  
(11-08-2014 05:56 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Not only them, fuck you to anyone not able to raise a private army to protect themselves.

Good point. An arms race would ensue with only the wealthiest on top.

So, Luminon is an elitist attempting to convince us of the beauty of his New World Order?

I guess I was narrowly only thinking of my poor self.

It is a laughably juvenile system that would collapse at the first strong breeze of trouble. It has no protection for anyone unable to buy it themselves and those people would in all likelyhood set themselves up as de facto feudal princes.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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11-08-2014, 06:17 PM
No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
Luminon: if you want to live in a possible example of what such a system might look like perhaps living in Juarez, Mexico? I suspect this is close to what you are proposing.

Note: I do not actually advocate anyone living in Juarez.

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11-08-2014, 09:25 PM (This post was last modified: 12-08-2014 01:10 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(11-08-2014 02:38 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(11-08-2014 02:05 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  It's 'consensus' you dense motehrfucker, it is always the consensus. Right's aren't 'inalienable' or 'natural' or 'inherent' until we come to the consensus to make them so. What is, and is not, considered a 'right' changes with the consensus. There is nothing in the whole fucking universe that gives anyone the right to use force, or conversely the right to never be subjected to force. Philosophy does not dictate the nature of reality.


People who existed before you were born came to an agreed upon consensus, and had a hand in constructing the society you live it. It's laws, rules, mores, everything. Now instead of improving the system you have, you'd rather scrap it (not only for yourself, but for everyone else as well; regardless of their desires) just because you personally didn't have a hand in dictating it's creation in the first place. Well, fuck you; the universe doesn't owe you shit. You don't have any fucking right outside of what you can convince others you have, because all the philosophy in the world cannot both grant you and protect your 'inalienable natural rights' if the rest of society hasn't reached the same consensus.


Welcome to the real world jackass...
If there was a consensus, there would be no guns and prisons for not paying taxes.
So there is no consensus and laws are just make-believe. It's true, the universe doesn't owe me shit, and I don't owe shit to the state. By the way, government isn't real. It's just buildings full of people with papers, guns and badass costumes, like a BDSM mafia.

So you're finally catching up.

Yes, government is imaginary; just like currency and your vaunted 'first principles'. But if enough people believe in them, they have real power.

There is a consensus, but 'consensus' is just a general agreement, it does not equate to 'universally agreed upon' you purposely obtuse motherfucker. Hence why humans interact in society, to try to bring others into agreement with their opinions and desires and form a consensus that gets them what they want. We value negotiation and interaction, but there will always be outliers that refuse to negotiate or abide by the consensus; this is not always a bad thing. If enough people disagree with the consensus, they can change it and create a new once (see: american Civil Rights movement, woman's suffrage, etc.). We have come to the general consensus in the developed world, that when people try to do this nonviolently, they should be protected for expressing their opinions; this is the consensus, even if we sometimes fall short of it (we are human after all).

Sometimes however those disagreeing with the consensus would rather use violence (like you advocating for the murder of IRS agents), and so we have apparatuses in place to deal with that possibility; because you'd have to be a monumental idiot ignorant of both human nature and history to do otherwise. So unfortunately for you, the consensus is that you do owe the state for what it does provide. If you want to change the status quo, then you need to do so by changing the consensus; and if you cannot, then though shit, you have lost the war of ideas.

If your time here has shown you anything, it's that you suck at changing the consensus.

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12-08-2014, 12:26 AM (This post was last modified: 12-08-2014 03:03 AM by morondog.)
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(11-08-2014 05:34 PM)Luminon Wrote:  [Image: 53508781.jpg]

Advocating for a lawless society amounts to giving out licenses to kill to everyone. Shit meme Lumi.

Here's a thought experiment.

You being a twit, decide to go drive at 250 km per hour and hit a car carrying my entire family. I catch you and torture you to death. Slowly, over the course of several weeks. Except because I'm not too bright I don't catch you, I catch someone totally innocent.

In a normal legal system there will be some comeback over this, to try to ensure that there is fair trial and that punishments are not cruel and unusual. In your anarchic system the only possible protection you can appeal to is the dicey idea of private security, with no guarantee of a public, fairly conducted trial.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-08-2014, 03:41 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
I would like to bring up an important point that has been glossed over. Ol Lumy keeps trying to push his dystopian system as "Volunteerism" when it is not. This is something Anarcho-capitalists try to sell, they point to things that happen in rule of law societies and say that is anarchy. Make no mistake it is not. Anarcho-Capitalism is essentially like those free to play MMO's yes technically there is no obligation but there quickly develops a hierarchy of Paid Users that may as well be gods compared to a free user. One is reminded of the old Company Towns in America, this being before all those nasty laws gave protection to workers, where you would be paid in company money (something Lumy is proposing) but of course there was a huge catch. You would be given credit at the company store (the only place you could use your company money) to cover the difference between what they were paid and what their actual expenses were. They were given a house (on credit) and played a never ending game of catch up. It was impossible to actually get ahead in this system as you could never work enough to cover your expenses and even if you did your money was worthless outside of the town so you had no control over anything.




This is what happens when you give the rich and powerful no counters. Government may not be perfect but at least in a representative democracy you can change things given enough people.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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12-08-2014, 06:29 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(11-08-2014 05:50 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  So you're saying "fuck you" to all poor people?
So atheists eat babies?
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(11-08-2014 06:17 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Luminon: if you want to live in a possible example of what such a system might look like perhaps living in Juarez, Mexico? I suspect this is close to what you are proposing.

Note: I do not actually advocate anyone living in Juarez.
No, it would be more like the Wild West, actually.

An American Experiment in Anarcho-Capitalism: The -Not So Wild, Wild West*
by Terry L. Anderson and P. J. Hill
Department of Economics, Montana State University

But years before I even heard about the real "Wild" West from my professor, I had seen an article on Cracked or Wired, one of these. It said, that in the wild west era, the the worst year, the worst city, had about three people killed. Not so much a weekend night in New York under watchful vigilance of NYPD.

The rest of you, I can't talk to you if you don't know how private services work, even if you use them your whole life more than government services. I find that too much stoopid. Read an article.
Sandy Springs in Georgia. Your argument is invalid.

http://isil.org/the-town-that-privatized-everything/
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/24/busine...d=all&_r=0



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12-08-2014, 06:51 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(12-08-2014 06:29 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(11-08-2014 05:50 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  So you're saying "fuck you" to all poor people?
So atheists eat babies?
[Image: stefanmolyneux.jpg]


(11-08-2014 06:17 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Luminon: if you want to live in a possible example of what such a system might look like perhaps living in Juarez, Mexico? I suspect this is close to what you are proposing.

Note: I do not actually advocate anyone living in Juarez.
No, it would be more like the Wild West, actually.

An American Experiment in Anarcho-Capitalism: The -Not So Wild, Wild West*
by Terry L. Anderson and P. J. Hill
Department of Economics, Montana State University

But years before I even heard about the real "Wild" West from my professor, I had seen an article on Cracked or Wired, one of these. It said, that in the wild west era, the the worst year, the worst city, had about three people killed. Not so much a weekend night in New York under watchful vigilance of NYPD.

The rest of you, I can't talk to you if you don't know how private services work, even if you use them your whole life more than government services. I find that too much stoopid. Read an article.
Sandy Springs in Georgia. Your argument is invalid.

http://isil.org/the-town-that-privatized-everything/
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/24/busine...d=all&_r=0




Except Sandy Springs has an elected government. Your example is an utter failure of argumentation.

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