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No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
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12-08-2014, 06:54 AM (This post was last modified: 12-08-2014 07:27 AM by Luminon.)
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(12-08-2014 06:51 AM)Chas Wrote:  Except Sandy Springs has a government. Your example is an utter failure of argumentation.
Be realistic please, it's not a controlled lab environment out there. If they had no government at all, then Obama would probably find a reason to find some Al Quaeda in there and raze the place to radioactive ashes. Consider
If Sandy Springs is a failure, then that's how I want to fail Thumbsup
One way I wouldn't want to fail is to claim that everyone would have to hire their own private army.
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12-08-2014, 07:41 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(12-08-2014 06:54 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(12-08-2014 06:51 AM)Chas Wrote:  Except Sandy Springs has a government. Your example is an utter failure of argumentation.
Be realistic please, it's not a controlled lab environment out there. If they had no government at all, then Obama would probably find a reason to find some Al Quaeda in there and raze the place to radioactive ashes. Consider
If Sandy Springs is a failure, then that's how I want to fail Thumbsup
One way I wouldn't want to fail is to claim that everyone would have to hire their own private army.

Sandy Springs has an elected government, the services are under the control of that government, the residents pay property tax, businesses pay business taxes.

They have outsourced some services. The police are still the armed thugs in the employ of the government. Drinking Beverage

None of this supports your position in any way, except in your delusional, confirmation-biased mind.

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12-08-2014, 07:58 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(12-08-2014 07:41 AM)Chas Wrote:  Sandy Springs has an elected government, the services are under the control of that government, the residents pay property tax, businesses pay business taxes.

They have outsourced some services. The police are still the armed thugs in the employ of the government. Drinking Beverage

None of this supports your position in any way, except in your delusional, confirmation-biased mind.
OK, so if there's a church in a town, then atheism is false?
Is the police somehow exempt from the law of the market, that security is just another service? Do they need to be sprinkled with magical black-blue dust of public legitimity?

Eh, and if you choose to insult me, I might want to pay you less attention. You're not making any arguments, you provide no information (probably because you don't actually know anything) and insults just piss me off.
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12-08-2014, 08:12 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(12-08-2014 07:58 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(12-08-2014 07:41 AM)Chas Wrote:  Sandy Springs has an elected government, the services are under the control of that government, the residents pay property tax, businesses pay business taxes.

They have outsourced some services. The police are still the armed thugs in the employ of the government. Drinking Beverage

None of this supports your position in any way, except in your delusional, confirmation-biased mind.
OK, so if there's a church in a town, then atheism is false?
Is the police somehow exempt from the law of the market, that security is just another service? Do they need to be sprinkled with magical black-blue dust of public legitimity?

Eh, and if you choose to insult me, I might want to pay you less attention. You're not making any arguments, you provide no information (probably because you don't actually know anything) and insults just piss me off.

The argument is clear - there is no difference between a government hiring a security firm and a government hiring police officers directly.

This town is not an example of any of your libertarian philosophy.

I no longer give a fuck if you are pissed off. You have proven yourself entirely delusional.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-08-2014, 08:22 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
Lumi, still waiting for an answer to my thought experiment proposed earlier.

Fact is, (as fas as I can see) you can't have a fair justice system or even an approximation thereto, without some authority capable of enforcing that system. You *cannot* make justice into a commodity because all that that means is that the rich get off scott free from everything.

So enlighten me. Don't come up with non-answers. I want concrete proposals. First, how justice will be free and fair for everyone in anarchyland, second, how you will ensure that people follow the system that you propose.

If your answer is 'LOL free market' then... I think you've pretty much sunk your own cause. Not that you haven't actually done that already Consider

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-08-2014, 09:02 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(12-08-2014 08:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  If your answer is 'LOL free market' then... I think you've pretty much sunk your own cause. Not that you haven't actually done that already Consider

No, that's very much the sum total of his master plan.

Mindless, sanctimonious sloganeering is the beginning and end of his social philosophy. Regurgitated copypasta and image macros are the limits of his dialogue.

He is advocating unrestricted capitalism, as never before practiced in human history. Not even the gilded age gave as few fucks for the common man. Literally no-rules capitalism, where all power and influence are directly and solely proportional to capital itself. Now, capital is inherently unequally distributed, as a statistical matter of course. The nominal equality of such a regime is phantasmal, and the practical effect is unbridled feudalism.

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12-08-2014, 09:31 AM (This post was last modified: 12-08-2014 09:36 AM by Luminon.)
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(12-08-2014 08:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  Lumi, still waiting for an answer to my thought experiment proposed earlier.

Fact is, (as fas as I can see) you can't have a fair justice system or even an approximation thereto, without some authority capable of enforcing that system. You *cannot* make justice into a commodity because all that that means is that the rich get off scott free from everything.

So enlighten me. Don't come up with non-answers. I want concrete proposals. First, how justice will be free and fair for everyone in anarchyland, second, how you will ensure that people follow the system that you propose.

If your answer is 'LOL free market' then... I think you've pretty much sunk your own cause. Not that you haven't actually done that already Consider
I have already posted a concrete proposal in this thread and it's called DRO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispute_res...ganization
There's a friggin' literature on the topic beneath the article too. Some of it is free online book. You are making a formidable effort not to read and think and challenge your present stance.

People will follow it, because DROs make sure contracts get insured and if you get scammed, you get your money back. They would be ubiquitous and therefore cheap. Nobody would be insane enough to do business with someone who can't find a few dollars a month to subscribe to one of competing DROs.
DROs would try various policies of strictness towards crime and those that fit customers the best, would get the most customers and earn the most money. Most of all, they would invest into money-saving policies such as checking that customers's kids have their mirror neurons growing properly, to prevent aggression.
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12-08-2014, 09:38 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(12-08-2014 09:31 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(12-08-2014 08:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  Lumi, still waiting for an answer to my thought experiment proposed earlier.

Fact is, (as fas as I can see) you can't have a fair justice system or even an approximation thereto, without some authority capable of enforcing that system. You *cannot* make justice into a commodity because all that that means is that the rich get off scott free from everything.

So enlighten me. Don't come up with non-answers. I want concrete proposals. First, how justice will be free and fair for everyone in anarchyland, second, how you will ensure that people follow the system that you propose.

If your answer is 'LOL free market' then... I think you've pretty much sunk your own cause. Not that you haven't actually done that already Consider
I have already posted a concrete proposal in this thread and it's called DRO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispute_res...ganization
There's a friggin' literature on the topic beneath the article too. Some of it is free online book. You are making a formidable effort not to read and think and challenge your present stance.

People will follow it, because DROs make sure contracts get insured and if you get scammed, you get your money back. They would be ubiquitous and therefore cheap. Nobody would be insane enough to do business with someone who can't find a few dollars a month to subscribe to one of competing DROs.
DROs would try various policies of strictness towards crime and those that fit customers the best, would get the most customers and earn the most money. Most of all, they would invest into money-saving policies such as checking that customers's kids have their mirror neurons growing properly, to prevent aggression.

Presuppositionalism: it's not just for theists anymore!

...

Wait, hold the phone.

(12-08-2014 09:31 AM)Luminon Wrote:  Most of all, they would invest into money-saving policies such as checking that customers's kids have their mirror neurons growing properly, to prevent aggression.

What the actual fuck?

Just what kind of insane totalitarian thought police are you endorsing here, ol' Lumi?

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12-08-2014, 09:48 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(12-08-2014 09:31 AM)Luminon Wrote:  I have already posted a concrete proposal in this thread and it's called DRO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispute_res...ganization
There's a friggin' literature on the topic beneath the article too. Some of it is free online book. You are making a formidable effort not to read and think and challenge your present stance.

People will follow it, because DROs make sure contracts get insured and if you get scammed, you get your money back. They would be ubiquitous and therefore cheap. Nobody would be insane enough to do business with someone who can't find a few dollars a month to subscribe to one of competing DROs.

Yes, they would be. People do all sorts of irrational or impulsive things. People fall for scams all the time.

And people lie, cheat, and steal. You seem to ignore that thinking that all the actors will be rational. Never happens.

Quote:DROs would try various policies of strictness towards crime and those that fit customers the best, would get the most customers and earn the most money.

What policies? What is enforceable and by whom? If some DRO thug comes to my place to enforce something, he'll get shot.

Quote:Most of all, they would invest into money-saving policies such as checking that customers's kids have their mirror neurons growing properly, to prevent aggression.

Ah, yes. There is only one cause for everything.

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12-08-2014, 10:59 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(12-08-2014 09:02 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(12-08-2014 08:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  If your answer is 'LOL free market' then... I think you've pretty much sunk your own cause. Not that you haven't actually done that already Consider

No, that's very much the sum total of his master plan.

Mindless, sanctimonious sloganeering is the beginning and end of his social philosophy. Regurgitated copypasta and image macros are the limits of his dialogue.

He is advocating unrestricted capitalism, as never before practiced in human history. Not even the gilded age gave as few fucks for the common man. Literally no-rules capitalism, where all power and influence are directly and solely proportional to capital itself. Now, capital is inherently unequally distributed, as a statistical matter of course. The nominal equality of such a regime is phantasmal, and the practical effect is unbridled feudalism.

Not only that, but capitalism is really good at one thing and one thing only; generating wealth. Now at this point you have to stop and ask, do we as a society want that to be the focal point of all our endeavors? Should the generation of wealth be the ultimate end goal? If the consensus instead would rather focus on other values, such as equality, stability, or peace; then unfettered capitalism is not the best policy. Simple as that. Sorry Lumi, but it doesn't seem like you've won the argument; because first you need to convince enough people that 'greed is good' and should be pursued above all else.

Fuck, this is like trying to talk to Gordon Gekko from fucking Wall Street...

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