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No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
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12-08-2014, 05:20 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(12-08-2014 04:15 PM)Luminon Wrote:  The idea of ancap is, let's be nice to each other and do everything compatible with that. People who are fundamentally vicious can not accept this definition of ancap, because it's not a verbal hobby. I regret that you seem to have it totally wrong too, for some hopefully different reason.

No one disputes your definition. We just dispute its possibility. One does not have to be vicious to be realistic.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-08-2014, 05:31 PM (This post was last modified: 12-08-2014 05:35 PM by Luminon.)
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(12-08-2014 05:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  No one disputes your definition. We just dispute its possibility. One does not have to be vicious to be realistic.
Realistic does not equal reactionary, idle and stagnant. Realistic does not mean insane, which is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Realistic has little to do with culture and society, which are abstractions and umbrella concepts.

Tell me, what is more realistic? To vote for a political action that takes capital from the rich, gives a little to the poor (who suddenly face a scarcity of jobs), destroys most of it and produces nothing in the process?
Or is it more realistic to abandon grand social schemes and focus on how we keep and spend our own money, choose our spouses and treat our developing children at home?
One of these choices is violent and paralyzing in a mass organized way, the other is careful and literally shapes people's brains to be healthier and less neurotic.
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12-08-2014, 05:35 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(12-08-2014 05:31 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(12-08-2014 05:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  No one disputes your definition. We just dispute its possibility. One does not have to be vicious to be realistic.
Realistic does not equal reactionary, idle and stagnant. Realistic does not mean insane, which is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Realistic has little to do with culture and society, which are abstractions and umbrella concepts.

Tell me, what is more realistic? To vote for a political action that takes capital from the rich, gives a little to the poor (who suddenly face a scarcity of jobs), destroys most of it and produces nothing in the process?
Or is it more realistic to abandon grand social schemes and focus on how we keep and spend our own money, choose our spouses and treat our developing children at home?

Ok this right here is why we call you insane. Anarchy is being tried right now in Somalia and it is a disaster whereas Social Democracies have the highest standard of living and life expectancy in the history of the human race. Insanity is scrapping a working system for a broken one.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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12-08-2014, 05:50 PM
No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
Luminon, it will take a lot to convince me that your proposal could work. Allow me to provide you with a test protocol for a phase I trial:

1) Buy an island
2) Populate
3) Establish AnCap (why do I repulse at this nickname?)
4) Surpass the level of success currently enjoyed by most of the Free Western World

Then I *might* believe. However, should you claim success I will meet your results with great skepticism.

Best of luck.

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12-08-2014, 07:19 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(12-08-2014 05:31 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(12-08-2014 05:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  No one disputes your definition. We just dispute its possibility. One does not have to be vicious to be realistic.
Realistic does not equal reactionary, idle and stagnant. Realistic does not mean insane, which is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Realistic has little to do with culture and society, which are abstractions and umbrella concepts.

Tell me, what is more realistic? To vote for a political action that takes capital from the rich, gives a little to the poor (who suddenly face a scarcity of jobs), destroys most of it and produces nothing in the process?
Or is it more realistic to abandon grand social schemes and focus on how we keep and spend our own money, choose our spouses and treat our developing children at home?
One of these choices is violent and paralyzing in a mass organized way, the other is careful and literally shapes people's brains to be healthier and less neurotic.

False dichotomy.

The world is not black and white. Grow up.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-08-2014, 09:45 PM (This post was last modified: 12-08-2014 10:57 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(12-08-2014 03:44 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Luminon, I want to thank you for helping to educate me. Before this I didn't fully appreciate what I have here in the US. I also didn't fully appreciate the ultimate consequences of the Libertarian ideal.

I want to thank you for showing me how utterly vile and repulsive this anarcho-capitalist proposal truly is. Also for showing me even more reasons not to trust slick salesmen like Stefan Molyneaux. I feel I have learned a lot here.





Drinking Beverage

http://www.fdrliberated.com/
http://www.molyneuxrevealed.com/

Lumi, don't forget your Kool-Aid...


Also, from that website...

"There is quite a bit more. But to listen to it all you kind of want to be a person who enjoys this kind of topic. If you do, [Peter] Joseph does a fine job of fully exposing things. I particularly liked when Joseph captured Moly's argument technique. I believe the term was: Hyper reductive douche baggery. His serious point is that when Moly is faced with a serious, thoughtful and intensely complicated argument, he conjures up some simpleton analogy to respond. I am pretty sure he does this because he is not smart enough to understand what the opponent is saying."

That sounds just like poor old Lumi... Laughat

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13-08-2014, 12:06 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(12-08-2014 04:36 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(12-08-2014 04:25 PM)morondog Wrote:  We have given you multiple opportunities to expand on how exactly your ancap system will work. If you want us to accept your ideas it's up to you to explain them. The explanations that you gave, as an apparent masters student no less, were rooted in the idea that humans will magically be nice to each other.

I find it amusing that when people disagree with you, only then do you turn to the idea that some humans are fundamentally vicious - which immediately undermines all of your purported solutions to problems such as the rich dominating the poor.
Nobody in the world can give you "exactly", so demanding "how exactly" equals to saying "fuck you" in a veiled way. It's sending me on a fool's errand. Nobody told the people how exactly will cotton be picked when slavery is ended. Nobody could foresee big harvesting machines powered by liquid fossilized dinosaurs.

See bolded Lumi. Don't blame us for your failure to convince us. You presented sucky arguments. Not even in broad strokes is the outline of your proposed social change remotely desirable or even possible.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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13-08-2014, 01:48 AM (This post was last modified: 13-08-2014 02:15 AM by Luminon.)
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(12-08-2014 05:50 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Luminon, it will take a lot to convince me that your proposal could work. Allow me to provide you with a test protocol for a phase I trial:

1) Buy an island
2) Populate
3) Establish AnCap (why do I repulse at this nickname?)
4) Surpass the level of success currently enjoyed by most of the Free Western World

Then I *might* believe. However, should you claim success I will meet your results with great skepticism.

Best of luck.
Actually, there is an island very close to that! A former fishing village and a military base without any mineral resources. It's called Hong Kong Laugh out load

But... Facepalm You say all that as if you wouldn't enjoy capitalism and global market every day! You very much believe in new technical gadgets and globally shipped products, yet you want some "evidence" in form of an isolated island, which is bullshit. Do you see the hypocrisy? By that standard, there would be no evidence to end slavery, as an island where whites and blacks live as equals, because it's just an island. You'd say, "that's just an island, it may not work on large scale." You already have so much evidence that capitalism works and government is violent, that it blots out the sun.

Island my ass. You can and do tell no to the ghost of Steve Jobs and turn down an iPad offer and you keep your money. But you can't turn down the IRS, or you get ambushed, possibly shot if you resist, or dragged to a cage for years, shared with a 200 pound bank robber named Bubba. That was the deal since the Roman Empire, which was of course based on taxes too, just like any other empire. The "Free Western World" where governments take 60 % of your money and USA invades one country after another only has the living standard thanks to remains of free market capitalism and global trade, on which the military-industrial complex is a parasite.
Unless you're functionally retarded, you see the difference between an app store and IRS, between Steve Jobs and Bubba. If I said you don't, that would be really me making a bumbling idiot out of you.

If I lived 200 years ago. I'd want to be the guy who envisioned the end of slavery even though there was no convincing evidence that blacks are equal to whites or that cotton would get picked even without them. There was no such evidence beforehand, only a moral argument. I really wouldn't want to enter the history as a guy who was totally cheering pro-slavery unless there is some solid evidence and a sample island that non-slavery works. Trust me, people like Chas would be all with you thanks to best scientific evidence at the time that blacks have inferior cranial capacity and are generally less evolved and need regular doses of laudanum and mercury.
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13-08-2014, 01:59 AM
No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
Did I miss some link earlier in the thread? Why do you keep saying people get shot for not paying taxes? Has this actually happened? Where?

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13-08-2014, 02:10 AM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(13-08-2014 01:48 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(12-08-2014 05:50 PM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Luminon, it will take a lot to convince me that your proposal could work. Allow me to provide you with a test protocol for a phase I trial:

1) Buy an island
2) Populate
3) Establish AnCap (why do I repulse at this nickname?)
4) Surpass the level of success currently enjoyed by most of the Free Western World

Then I *might* believe. However, should you claim success I will meet your results with great skepticism.

Best of luck.
Actually, there is an island very close to that! A former fishing village and a military base without any mineral resources. It's called Hong Kong Laugh out load

But... Facepalm You say all that as if you wouldn't enjoy capitalism and global market every day! You very much believe in new technical gadgets and globally shipped products, yet you want some "evidence" in form of an isolated island, which is bullshit. Do you see the hypocrisy? By that standard, there would be no evidence to end slavery, as an island where whites and blacks live as equals, because it's just an island. You'd say, "that's just an island, it may not work on large scale." You already have so much evidence that capitalism works and government is violent, that it blots out the sun.

Island my ass. You can and do tell no to the ghost of Steve Jobs and turn down an iPad offer and you keep your money. But you can't turn down the IRS, or you get ambushed, possibly shot if you resist, or dragged to a cage for years, shared with a 200 pound bank robber named Bubba. That was the deal since the Roman Empire, which was of course based on taxes too, just like any other empire. The "Free Western World" where governments take 60 % of your money and USA invades one country after another only has the living standard thanks to remains of free market capitalism and global trade, on which the military-industrial complex is a parasite.

If I lived 200 years ago. I'd want to be the guy who envisioned the end of slavery even though there was no convincing evidence that blacks are equal to whites or that cotton would get picked even without them. There was no such evidence beforehand, only a moral argument. I really wouldn't want to enter the history as a guy who was totally cheering pro-slavery unless there is some solid evidence and a sample island that non-slavery works. Trust me, people like Chas would be all with you thanks to best scientific evidence at the time that blacks have inferior cranial capacity and are generally less evolved and need regular doses of laudanum and mercury.

1 - We don't have debtor's prisons in the United States. People in prison have a hard time paying back their debts (an astounding bit of logic, I know).

2 - IRS agents are not authorized to carry firearms.

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