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No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
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31-07-2014, 01:30 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(31-07-2014 01:28 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(31-07-2014 01:20 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Mixed feelings. Damn. So I wasn't trolling a real professor or docent all the time? Just a grad student? Gasp So this bloke was acting so superior and high and mighty all along and yet I'm a grad student too.
I'm a little relieved and a little disappointed.

I told you that all along, bud. It's not my fault if you can't read don't read make up your own answers instead of reading.

Find me one example of acting so superior and high and mighty before you started insulting me. I dare you. Your cavalcade of insanely judgemental dismissals did not endear you to me, and being only human, my patience is exhaustible.
(or, as we like to say - citation needed; the pseudoscientist's kryptonite)

He's just reacting to what someone with an actual education sounds like. Of course he thought you were a professor. He's a grad student and he can't even parse a sentence, naturally he assumed you were higher up the food chain.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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31-07-2014, 01:55 PM (This post was last modified: 31-07-2014 01:59 PM by Luminon.)
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(31-07-2014 11:58 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(31-07-2014 11:42 AM)Luminon Wrote:  It's like a safety vent against violence, but it doesn't actually solve causes of problems. Science invented vaccines and eradicated plagues. But whatever government did, is still here. Stuff like wars.

Oh look, deranged false dichotomies, mixed with blatantly false and superficial history.

Here's a question someone else can ask ol' Lumi:
Who funds vaccination research? Who provides vaccinations today?
See, this is assholish behavior. I talk about science and vaccines. You add a bunch of insults and then ask about funding of vaccination research.
This question has nothing to do with the topic. Of course, today the vaccines are funded by the government.
Do you imply that the only reason vaccines exist and get funded is the government? Of course you do, why else would you ask that?

The greatest false dichotomy is to imply that government must do things that people want otherwise things would not get done even though people want them. It is (falsely) claimed with justice, education, road-building, security and all the other things that were and are still today done by private companies, who do shady and expensive deals with governments. Government has no money of its own. Government funding is the idiotic idea that we can't afford vaccines or roads, but we can afford whole government bureaucracy plus vaccines and roads.

Question for everyone: Are you satisfied with quality of Cjlr's "questions"?
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31-07-2014, 01:59 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(31-07-2014 01:55 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(31-07-2014 11:58 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Oh look, deranged false dichotomies, mixed with blatantly false and superficial history.

Here's a question someone else can ask ol' Lumi:
Who funds vaccination research? Who provides vaccinations today?
See, this is assholish behavior. I talk about science and vaccines. You add a bunch of insults and then ask about funding of vaccination research.
This question has nothing to do with the topic. Of course, today the vaccines are funded by the government.
Do you imply that the only reason vaccines exist and get funded is the government? Of course you do, why else would you ask that?

The greatest false dichotomy is to imply that government must do things that people want otherwise things would not get done even though people want them. It is (falsely) claimed with justice, education, road-building, security and all the other things that were and are still today done by private companies. Government has no money of its own. Government funding is the idiotic idea that we can't afford vaccines or roads, but we can afford whole government bureaucracy plus vaccines and roads.

Question for everyone: Are you satisfied with quality of Cjlr's "questions"?


Lyme Disease has a vaccine that could save hundreds of lives but it is not manufactured because it is not profitable. Your free market fails when there is no profit so yes his question makes sense and your refusal to even attempt a legitimate answer is telling.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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31-07-2014, 02:17 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(31-07-2014 01:59 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(31-07-2014 01:55 PM)Luminon Wrote:  See, this is assholish behavior. I talk about science and vaccines. You add a bunch of insults and then ask about funding of vaccination research.
This question has nothing to do with the topic. Of course, today the vaccines are funded by the government.
Do you imply that the only reason vaccines exist and get funded is the government? Of course you do, why else would you ask that?

The greatest false dichotomy is to imply that government must do things that people want otherwise things would not get done even though people want them. It is (falsely) claimed with justice, education, road-building, security and all the other things that were and are still today done by private companies. Government has no money of its own. Government funding is the idiotic idea that we can't afford vaccines or roads, but we can afford whole government bureaucracy plus vaccines and roads.

Question for everyone: Are you satisfied with quality of Cjlr's "questions"?

Lyme Disease has a vaccine that could save hundreds of lives but it is not manufactured because it is not profitable. Your free market fails when there is no profit so yes his question makes sense and your refusal to even attempt a legitimate answer is telling.

He also doesn't understand why he's spouting false dichotomies.

' "Science" does X, "government" does Y' is simplistic (and fallacious) reification and generalisation.

Nor does he understand responses that don't fit into the little boxes he lives in. He's literally incapable of not strawmanning, because his circular worldview is so straightjacketed.

Governments, as social instruments, are capable of a wide range of actions, all of which have positives and negatives, just like any other social instrument. "NO THEY R ALWAYS BAD CUZ FEELS" is not a useful statement. Resource management and public safety can't be left to the honour system. Ol Lumi's solution to all possible problems is magical thinking. You and I don't think that's quite sufficient.

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31-07-2014, 02:29 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(31-07-2014 01:59 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Lyme Disease has a vaccine that could save hundreds of lives but it is not manufactured because it is not profitable. Your free market fails when there is no profit so yes his question makes sense and your refusal to even attempt a legitimate answer is telling.
Firstly, that's one disease and vaccine out of many.
Secondly, this is no argument for the existence of state. States kill lots of people.
Thirdly, there is no evidence that the violent taxation is the only way to fund this vaccine.
Fourthly, nobody can say that in a free society this would be a problem - in a free society nations would be several times richer due to free market economy instead of welfare warfare socialism. Some charities and foundations might as well focus on this from many different angles, not just vaccines.
Fifthly, I see no evidence that the Lyme vaccine is actually unprofitable.

http://reason.com/archives/2013/11/04/an...on-victory
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3460208/
- The vaccine seemed to be shot down by anti-vaxxer outcry. Was the vaccine withdrawn from the fear of lawsuits, which are of course enforced by the government at government courts?

Many people have observed that there turned out to be not enough demand for the vaccine to be commercially viable. But almost all the factors related to either LD (e.g., it was treatable, nondeadly, and preventable by other means) or the vaccines (potential for inducing autoimmunity, need for boosters) that might have led to low demand were known before extensive investments in clinical trials, regulatory review, and initial marketing. So these disease and vaccine characteristics are better understood as supporting players, while the more fundamental causes are the more contingent and unanticipated actions that occurred in the brief period after clinical trials were finished and before LYMErix was withdrawn from the market. These actions tipped the balance toward the vaccines’ demise. Specifically, we need to understand (1) the origins of the intense heterodox opposition to the LD vaccine and the weak orthodox support for the vaccines once they were challenged and (2) why the efficacy of a “personalized vaccine” was inherently vulnerable to this opposition.
Free market wins again and the true culprit is, as always, the government force and democratic mob rule. Now - change your mind, will ya?
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31-07-2014, 02:31 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(31-07-2014 02:29 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(31-07-2014 01:59 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Lyme Disease has a vaccine that could save hundreds of lives but it is not manufactured because it is not profitable. Your free market fails when there is no profit so yes his question makes sense and your refusal to even attempt a legitimate answer is telling.
Firstly, that's one disease and vaccine out of many.
Secondly, this is no argument for the existence of state. States kill lots of people.
Thirdly, there is no evidence that the violent taxation is the only way to fund this vaccine.
Fourthly, nobody can say that in a free society this would be a problem - in a free society nations would be several times richer due to free market economy instead of welfare warfare socialism. Some charities and foundations might as well focus on this from many different angles, not just vaccines.
Fifthly, I see no evidence that the Lyme vaccine is actually unprofitable.

http://reason.com/archives/2013/11/04/an...on-victory
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3460208/
- The vaccine seemed to be shot down by anti-vaxxer outcry. Was the vaccine withdrawn from the fear of lawsuits, which are of course enforced by the government at government courts?

Many people have observed that there turned out to be not enough demand for the vaccine to be commercially viable. But almost all the factors related to either LD (e.g., it was treatable, nondeadly, and preventable by other means) or the vaccines (potential for inducing autoimmunity, need for boosters) that might have led to low demand were known before extensive investments in clinical trials, regulatory review, and initial marketing. So these disease and vaccine characteristics are better understood as supporting players, while the more fundamental causes are the more contingent and unanticipated actions that occurred in the brief period after clinical trials were finished and before LYMErix was withdrawn from the market. These actions tipped the balance toward the vaccines’ demise. Specifically, we need to understand (1) the origins of the intense heterodox opposition to the LD vaccine and the weak orthodox support for the vaccines once they were challenged and (2) why the efficacy of a “personalized vaccine” was inherently vulnerable to this opposition.
Free market wins again and the true culprit is, as always, the government force and democratic mob rule. Now - change your mind, will ya?

You asked for an example I gave one. I see you cannot actual deal with this information so you immediately ignore it to move back to your political bubble. Pathetic.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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31-07-2014, 02:37 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(31-07-2014 02:29 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(31-07-2014 01:59 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Lyme Disease has a vaccine that could save hundreds of lives but it is not manufactured because it is not profitable. Your free market fails when there is no profit so yes his question makes sense and your refusal to even attempt a legitimate answer is telling.
Firstly, that's one disease and vaccine out of many.
Secondly, this is no argument for the existence of state. States kill lots of people.
Thirdly, there is no evidence that the violent taxation is the only way to fund this vaccine.
Fourthly, nobody can say that in a free society this would be a problem - in a free society nations would be several times richer due to free market economy instead of welfare warfare socialism. Some charities and foundations might as well focus on this from many different angles, not just vaccines.
Fifthly, I see no evidence that the Lyme vaccine is actually unprofitable.

http://reason.com/archives/2013/11/04/an...on-victory
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3460208/
- The vaccine seemed to be shot down by anti-vaxxer outcry. Was the vaccine withdrawn from the fear of lawsuits, which are of course enforced by the government at government courts?

Many people have observed that there turned out to be not enough demand for the vaccine to be commercially viable. But almost all the factors related to either LD (e.g., it was treatable, nondeadly, and preventable by other means) or the vaccines (potential for inducing autoimmunity, need for boosters) that might have led to low demand were known before extensive investments in clinical trials, regulatory review, and initial marketing. So these disease and vaccine characteristics are better understood as supporting players, while the more fundamental causes are the more contingent and unanticipated actions that occurred in the brief period after clinical trials were finished and before LYMErix was withdrawn from the market. These actions tipped the balance toward the vaccines’ demise. Specifically, we need to understand (1) the origins of the intense heterodox opposition to the LD vaccine and the weak orthodox support for the vaccines once they were challenged and (2) why the efficacy of a “personalized vaccine” was inherently vulnerable to this opposition.
Free market wins again and the true culprit is, as always, the government force and democratic mob rule. Now - change your mind, will ya?

Ironically it is people like you that support the anti-vax movement. You hate real science because you want to be special. You hate that you are ordinary so anything that reinforces that fact must be part of an evil conspiracy. It's Mommy and Daddys fault cause they didn't love you enough or didn't give you everything growing up. It's "The Governments" fault because they are trying to suppress you. It's the big scientific conspiracies fault because they are too scared of your unique snowflake status that they have to impose pesky rules and standards to your delusions. You are not special you are a mediocre professional student with no critical thinking skills who latches onto one snakeoil salesmen after the next so you can be better than everyone else around you. You are a pseudo-intellectual and scientific illiterate who would rather bask in your own false specialness than actually learn what reality is.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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31-07-2014, 02:46 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(31-07-2014 02:37 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(31-07-2014 02:29 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Firstly, that's one disease and vaccine out of many.
Secondly, this is no argument for the existence of state. States kill lots of people.
Thirdly, there is no evidence that the violent taxation is the only way to fund this vaccine.
Fourthly, nobody can say that in a free society this would be a problem - in a free society nations would be several times richer due to free market economy instead of welfare warfare socialism. Some charities and foundations might as well focus on this from many different angles, not just vaccines.
Fifthly, I see no evidence that the Lyme vaccine is actually unprofitable.

http://reason.com/archives/2013/11/04/an...on-victory
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3460208/
- The vaccine seemed to be shot down by anti-vaxxer outcry. Was the vaccine withdrawn from the fear of lawsuits, which are of course enforced by the government at government courts?

Many people have observed that there turned out to be not enough demand for the vaccine to be commercially viable. But almost all the factors related to either LD (e.g., it was treatable, nondeadly, and preventable by other means) or the vaccines (potential for inducing autoimmunity, need for boosters) that might have led to low demand were known before extensive investments in clinical trials, regulatory review, and initial marketing. So these disease and vaccine characteristics are better understood as supporting players, while the more fundamental causes are the more contingent and unanticipated actions that occurred in the brief period after clinical trials were finished and before LYMErix was withdrawn from the market. These actions tipped the balance toward the vaccines’ demise. Specifically, we need to understand (1) the origins of the intense heterodox opposition to the LD vaccine and the weak orthodox support for the vaccines once they were challenged and (2) why the efficacy of a “personalized vaccine” was inherently vulnerable to this opposition.
Free market wins again and the true culprit is, as always, the government force and democratic mob rule. Now - change your mind, will ya?

Ironically it is people like you that support the anti-vax movement. You hate real science because you want to be special. You hate that you are ordinary so anything that reinforces that fact must be part of an evil conspiracy. It's Mommy and Daddys fault cause they didn't love you enough or didn't give you everything growing up. It's "The Governments" fault because they are trying to suppress you. It's the big scientific conspiracies fault because they are too scared of your unique snowflake status that they have to impose pesky rules and standards to your delusions. You are not special you are a mediocre professional student with no critical thinking skills who latches onto one snakeoil salesmen after the next so you can be better than everyone else around you. You are a pseudo-intellectual and scientific illiterate who would rather bask in your own false specialness than actually learn what reality is.

Well, I guess that's ol Lumi who belongs on the list, then.
Oh! and I and I!
(07-07-2014 09:19 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  List of people who hate both cjlr and myself

Frankksj: troll, fled the forum
Pleasejesus: troll, fled the forum
Theword: troll, fled the forum
Jeremy E Walker: troll, banned
Egor: troll, left the forum
Taqiyya Mockingbird: troll

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31-07-2014, 02:51 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(31-07-2014 02:31 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  You asked for an example I gave one. I see you cannot actual deal with this information so you immediately ignore it to move back to your political bubble. Pathetic.
Bullshit. You got your ass kicked. You did not prove anything about market or politics and you did not provide any information. I did.
In case I didn't, I am sure you would claim that you had some point in market or politics. Instead, you slander me:

(31-07-2014 02:37 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Ironically it is people like you that support the anti-vax movement.
I don't. None of the information I posted is anti-vaccination. It is actually pro-market, pro-vaccines, anti-government.
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31-07-2014, 03:05 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(31-07-2014 02:46 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(31-07-2014 02:37 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Ironically it is people like you that support the anti-vax movement. You hate real science because you want to be special. You hate that you are ordinary so anything that reinforces that fact must be part of an evil conspiracy. It's Mommy and Daddys fault cause they didn't love you enough or didn't give you everything growing up. It's "The Governments" fault because they are trying to suppress you. It's the big scientific conspiracies fault because they are too scared of your unique snowflake status that they have to impose pesky rules and standards to your delusions. You are not special you are a mediocre professional student with no critical thinking skills who latches onto one snakeoil salesmen after the next so you can be better than everyone else around you. You are a pseudo-intellectual and scientific illiterate who would rather bask in your own false specialness than actually learn what reality is.

Well, I guess that's ol Lumi who belongs on the list, then.
Oh! and I and I!
(07-07-2014 09:19 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  List of people who hate both cjlr and myself

Frankksj: troll, fled the forum
Pleasejesus: troll, fled the forum
Theword: troll, fled the forum
Jeremy E Walker: troll, banned
Egor: troll, left the forum
Taqiyya Mockingbird: troll

Sad how accurate that list is. Facepalm

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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