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No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
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21-08-2014, 12:59 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(21-08-2014 06:44 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 06:02 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Then it's clear it is not enough of a disincentive. Make the penalties a percentage that starts at 100% and goes upwards, complete forfeiture of unlawful gains and then some. Make it so that breaking the law is no longer profitable. With proper regulation and enforcement, we can do this. But ol' Lumi would have us believe that the marker will magically prevent this on it's own because reasons...

Although if there are no regulations, then nothing is illegal, then everything is legal. People would still be getting fucked over, it would just all be kosker. I guess that's a win for Lumi, as technically nothing illegal would have happened? Hooray?

Meh. I'm not sure that's even enough of a disincentive. Here is the thing:

The securities market is nothing more than a casino. It's all a matter of placing bets. Some of those bets have good odds and lower payouts (low risk investments), others have low odds and high payouts (high risk investments).

In order for someone to win their bet, someone must lose. The problem is that EVERYTHING has risk. Even if you stuff all your money in your mattress, you still have the risk that your house will burn down.

And people can't handle it when risk is realized. They think someone must have cheated if they lost their bet. And in many instances, people were placing bets at high stakes tables that they had no business playing at. Then they use regulation to try to ensure that people don't lose their ass (and that is impossible)

Right, and that makes sense. Another thing to do would be to separate investment (gambling) bank from regular savings. Another thing to do would be to force a split of the banks, so that the market could absorb it when one failed. Actually give themselves a chance to wipe themselves out of existence, and hope that's enough incentive to take safer bets. Another thing I would like to see, and this was proposed by Elizabeth Warren, was reintroducing basic banking services within US Post Offices. It could help generate revenue and would simultaneously offer cheap, reliable, and secure banking for millions of Americans that otherwise need to rely on payday loan sharks and such.

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21-08-2014, 01:27 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(21-08-2014 08:48 AM)cjlr Wrote:  It may interest you to know that in the more than 40 years since the latter of those two, there has in fact been subsequent work done in psychology, up to and including critiques and analyses of their work itself.

But I guess that's the kind of thing only governmnet-approved Reptiloid brainwashing gunman schools teach people.
So, what are the news in the field, which you hint at? Got any specific news, since you brought that up?
My impression is, nobody learned from these two old experiments, they're still doing the same mistakes.

(21-08-2014 08:48 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 05:37 AM)Luminon Wrote:  Not you or me, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Wait, what?

(21-08-2014 05:37 AM)Luminon Wrote:  Not you or me, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Sorry, again?

(21-08-2014 05:37 AM)Luminon Wrote:  Not you or me, you're barking up the wrong tree.

(21-08-2014 08:48 AM)cjlr Wrote:  THEN WHY DON'T YOU LET THAT STOP YOU
?
Because that's what it takes to exist. No self-erasing, regardless of the hate mail.
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21-08-2014, 01:41 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(21-08-2014 01:27 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 08:48 AM)cjlr Wrote:  It may interest you to know that in the more than 40 years since the latter of those two, there has in fact been subsequent work done in psychology, up to and including critiques and analyses of their work itself.

But I guess that's the kind of thing only governmnet-approved Reptiloid brainwashing gunman schools teach people.
So, what are the news in the field, which you hint at? Got any specific news, since you brought that up?
My impression is, nobody learned from these two old experiments, they're still doing the same mistakes.

(21-08-2014 08:48 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Wait, what?


Sorry, again?
Because that's what it takes to exist. No self-erasing, regardless of the hate mail.

wut

I give you ol' Lumi: non sequitur champion.

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21-08-2014, 02:18 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(21-08-2014 01:41 PM)cjlr Wrote:  I give you ol' Lumi: non sequitur champion.

Hehe Smile He started with "because fairy godmother" and when he saw that people weren't convinced he moved on to "because leewoo doodly fop! Fweep!"

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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21-08-2014, 03:14 PM (This post was last modified: 21-08-2014 03:39 PM by cjlr.)
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(21-08-2014 01:27 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 08:48 AM)cjlr Wrote:  It may interest you to know that in the more than 40 years since the latter of those two, there has in fact been subsequent work done in psychology, up to and including critiques and analyses of their work itself.

But I guess that's the kind of thing only governmnet-approved Reptiloid brainwashing gunman schools teach people.
So, what are the news in the field, which you hint at? Got any specific news, since you brought that up?
My impression is, nobody learned from these two old experiments, they're still doing the same mistakes.

Why should I have to do your work for you?
(hint: the difference between, and relationship of, situational and dispositional behaviour is a vast topic)

If you're too dishonest and lazy to bother looking into how experiments from 1963 and 1971 are not the final word in behavioural psychology, I can't help you. It was your content-free namedropping that prompted my response.

Read a book. Preferably more than one. Seriously, now.

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21-08-2014, 03:28 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(21-08-2014 01:41 PM)cjlr Wrote:  wut

I give you ol' Lumi: non sequitur champion.
To express ourselves is to exist, especially online. We can't have a civil conversation, so do what you have to do and I will too, that is, not back down against the hatespeak.

Yes, I know about the flaws in the Stanford experiment. The problem is, this flawed experiment is way too similar to how families, schools and governments are structured. Just like the experiment, these institutions do not try to study human nature, they actively break it and shape it. I have heard an opinion that the Stanford experiment escalated so quickly because the students were brought up as conformists by the family and whole society. That would jibe with the findings of Milgram, who discovered that less agreeable and "decent" people were also less likely to obey cruel orders.

That's a case I would make to someone who is not actively trying to insult me and belittle me and who is consequently not threatened and insulted by everything I say and don't say, and who is therefore secure and comfortable enough to say, "interesting idea, I'll think about it."
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21-08-2014, 03:30 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(21-08-2014 03:28 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 01:41 PM)cjlr Wrote:  wut

I give you ol' Lumi: non sequitur champion.
To express ourselves is to exist, especially online. We can't have a civil conversation, so do what you have to do and I will too, that is, not back down against the hatespeak.

Yes, I know about the flaws in the Stanford experiment. The problem is, this flawed experiment is way too similar to how families, schools and governments are structured. Just like the experiment, these institutions do not try to study human nature, they actively break it and shape it. I have heard an opinion that the Stanford experiment escalated so quickly because the students were brought up as conformists by the family and whole society. That would jibe with the findings of Milgram, who discovered that less agreeable and "decent" people were also less likely to obey cruel orders.

That's a case I would make to someone who is not actively trying to insult me and belittle me and who is consequently not threatened and insulted by everything I say and don't say, and who is therefore secure and comfortable enough to say, "interesting idea, I'll think about it."

Who cares that this has been torn apart several times and is full of faulty data Muh Feels!!!!!!!!!!

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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21-08-2014, 03:39 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(21-08-2014 03:28 PM)Luminon Wrote:  That's a case I would make to someone who is not actively trying to insult me and belittle me and who is consequently not threatened and insulted by everything I say and don't say, and who is therefore secure and comfortable enough to say, "interesting idea, I'll think about it."

Why would we give you more respect than you give us? You *have* been given the time of day by many people in this very thread. You have then proceeded to diagnose them with personality problems when they don't agree with you and you have not *once* to my knowledge, in this thread, taken note of any other person's point of view, even to the point of saying "I'll think about it".

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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21-08-2014, 03:42 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(21-08-2014 01:41 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 01:27 PM)Luminon Wrote:  So, what are the news in the field, which you hint at? Got any specific news, since you brought that up?
My impression is, nobody learned from these two old experiments, they're still doing the same mistakes.

Because that's what it takes to exist. No self-erasing, regardless of the hate mail.

wut

I give you ol' Lumi: non sequitur champion.

HBL was retired as the non sequitur champion. Lumi tends to connect the dots fairly well I think... All those imaginary dots.
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21-08-2014, 03:43 PM
RE: No wing: political equivalent to atheism?
(21-08-2014 03:28 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(21-08-2014 01:41 PM)cjlr Wrote:  wut

I give you ol' Lumi: non sequitur champion.
To express ourselves is to exist, especially online. We can't have a civil conversation, so do what you have to do and I will too, that is, not back down against the hatespeak.

I'm plenty civil.

(21-08-2014 03:28 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Yes, I know about the flaws in the Stanford experiment. The problem is, this flawed experiment is way too similar to how families, schools and governments are structured.

Citation needed.

(21-08-2014 03:28 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Just like the experiment, these institutions do not try to study human nature, they actively break it and shape it. I have heard an opinion that the Stanford experiment escalated so quickly because the students were brought up as conformists by the family and whole society. That would jibe with the findings of Milgram, who discovered that less agreeable and "decent" people were also less likely to obey cruel orders.

I... see. You heard an opinion.

And since it's one you agree with, it must be true!

Riiiiight.

(21-08-2014 03:28 PM)Luminon Wrote:  That's a case I would make to someone who is not actively trying to insult me and belittle me...

You insult and belittle people all the time.

(21-08-2014 03:28 PM)Luminon Wrote:  ... and who is consequently not threatened and insulted by everything I say and don't say...

I, for one, have literally never been threatened or substantively insulted by anything you have ever said.

(21-08-2014 03:28 PM)Luminon Wrote:  ... and who is therefore secure and comfortable enough to say, "interesting idea, I'll think about it."

Here is the $64,000 question:
Why do you refuse to consider anyting anyone else presents to you?

It is far from a matter of no one wishing to look at what you present. It is very much a matter of looking and finding it incredibly wanting.

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