Noah's Ark Calculation
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08-06-2014, 06:18 PM
Noah's Ark Calculation
I've been reading Creationist's explanations of the ark, and saw this on the Christian Broadcasting Network's website.

"would have ample space to carry the 50,000 animals, filling only 37 percent of the ark."

I called BS and decided to do my own calculations. In Genesis the ark is explained to be 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide, and 30 cubits high. 1 cubit = 0.4572m.

For ease of calculations, I've designed my ship as a half-cylinder. Although this may seem like that the ark is more "squarly", my design is 50 cubits in height so actually I've been very generous to creationists there.

[Image: 2vx4vnm.jpg]
vs.
[Image: 30u2s74.png]

The Christian Broadcasting Network says there are today 2 millions of different animal species, but they've calculated that there would have been 50 000 animals on the ark.

However, Answers in Genesis calculated 16 000 so we'll go with that.

Again, for ease of calculation, I've reckoned the average animal is about the size of a sheep. I've haven't been generous towards the animals in terms of living space.

A sheep's dimensions is : Height - 0.8m; Lentgh - 0.75m; Girth - 0.9m

My design:
[Image: ipoxhl.png]

So far it works out quite well, the Ark is around 30% full.

Now here is the big problem, food.

Again, my calculations is based on sheep. The most compact food for sheep is maize silage. 1.33m^3 can feed a sheep for 300 days. I've used 1.5m^3 for the sake of the argument.

(Source: http://www.teagasc.ie/newsletters/farmin...00518.asp)

A more realistic calculation would've been using hay, but the requires about 4m^3 per sheep.

Anyways, this is my calculation program:

V = 0.5*(pi*r^2)*L
R = (50*0.4572)/2
L = 300*0.4572

V_sheep = 1*1*0.5
animals = 16000
V_sheeps = V_sheep *animals

V_bales = 1.5*animals

V_% = ((V_sheeps+V_bales)/V)*100

And thus, the great ark would've been 114% full. (Maybe my calculations needs checking).

If we've used 50 000 animals and hay instead of maize silage, the ark would've been 900% full.

Of course, my calculations doesn't include water storage, extra supplement storage, walkways for Noah and his tireless crew, living quarters for them, sewage waste.

We can only be very happy that Noah pulled this off and luckily no animals died on the voyage.
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09-06-2014, 10:42 AM
RE: Noah's Ark Calculation
Excellent effort!!! I'm impressed. Having done a fair bit of mathematical modelling myself, I'm aware you have to make assumptions and simplifications. But the choice of a sheep as an "average" animal is a decent choice.

Two small points. Water storage would not be a problem. They had just had 40 days and 40 nights of rain which covered even Mt Everest and it was rainwater, so the salt level would have been very low. So, all they had to do was sling a bucket over the side and...voila...fresh water.

Similarly, waste wouldn't have been a problem. Just sling the old John or Jane Thomas and/or Mr/Mrs Stinkypink over the side and let rip. Just don't do it at the same time as you're drawing water, of course (you really don't want the chunky bits). But the volume of water would ensure the pollution level was negligible.

How long did the flood last? Well, this Christian site says one year and 10 days.

http://beyondflannelgraph.wordpress.com/...lood-last/

We had a flood thread a few months ago in which I and others pointed out that during the flood water pressure at current sea levels would be around 800 times the current atmospheric pressure, it would be pitch-black dark and no photosynthesis could take place. When the flood subsided, there would be no vegetation. None. So, Noah would have had to store enough food for just over a year (in theory) and a lot longer in practice since no vegetation would have survived for the herbivores. Would it even regenerate? And what about the carnivores? Keeping meat without a freezer for a year? Euwww. And where did Noah store this food?

50,000 animals. Most have male/female divides. So, that's about 25,000 "kinds". I love how IDers diss evolution but claim these "kinds" developed into thousands of different species but somehow this is not evolution!!!???!! If Noah took on just 2 snakes, how did we end up with around 2700 species just 6000 years later? What about flutterbies (my preferred spelling). There's about 28000 different species now. IDers often demand we show transitional forms but never show any themselves. Hmmm.
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09-06-2014, 11:01 AM
RE: Noah's Ark Calculation
(09-06-2014 10:42 AM)jockmcdock Wrote:  50,000 animals. Most have male/female divides. So, that's about 25,000 "kinds". I love how IDers diss evolution but claim these "kinds" developed into thousands of different species but somehow this is not evolution!!!???!! If Noah took on just 2 snakes, how did we end up with around 2700 species just 6000 years later? What about flutterbies (my preferred spelling). There's about 28000 different species now. IDers often demand we show transitional forms but never show any themselves. Hmmm.
Plus, I love how all these changes would have had to occur in just ~4000 years. They say we can't see transitions over the "supposed" (according to them) 10s of millions of years, but in just 4 to 6 thousand years we should see massive amounts of transitions. These animals would have to be undergoing huge amounts of changes, just from generation to generation, to get from 2 of a generic 'kind', to get to the thousands of varieties we see today.

[Image: 21omssh.jpg]
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09-06-2014, 11:57 AM
RE: Noah's Ark Calculation
Considering that the Bible says that Noah was 600 years old at the time of the flood, I seriously think that the authors of the Bible were seriously bad at math to begin with. Laugh out load
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09-06-2014, 12:01 PM
RE: Noah's Ark Calculation
What I always wondered was if God was so almighty and powerful then why didn't he just re-create all the animals that he destroyed? Why put a 600 year old man through hell just so God can commit mass murder?

I guess God works in mysterious ways Hobo
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09-06-2014, 04:52 PM
RE: Noah's Ark Calculation
(08-06-2014 06:18 PM)TheSkeptic Wrote:  I've been reading Creationist's explanations of the ark, and saw this on the Christian Broadcasting Network's website.

"would have ample space to carry the 50,000 animals, filling only 37 percent of the ark."

I called BS and decided to do my own calculations. In Genesis the ark is explained to be 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide, and 30 cubits high. 1 cubit = 0.4572m.

For ease of calculations, I've designed my ship as a half-cylinder. Although this may seem like that the ark is more "squarly", my design is 50 cubits in height so actually I've been very generous to creationists there.

[Image: 2vx4vnm.jpg]
vs.
[Image: 30u2s74.png]

The Christian Broadcasting Network says there are today 2 millions of different animal species, but they've calculated that there would have been 50 000 animals on the ark.

However, Answers in Genesis calculated 16 000 so we'll go with that.

Again, for ease of calculation, I've reckoned the average animal is about the size of a sheep. I've haven't been generous towards the animals in terms of living space.

A sheep's dimensions is : Height - 0.8m; Lentgh - 0.75m; Girth - 0.9m

My design:
[Image: ipoxhl.png]

So far it works out quite well, the Ark is around 30% full.

Now here is the big problem, food.

Again, my calculations is based on sheep. The most compact food for sheep is maize silage. 1.33m^3 can feed a sheep for 300 days. I've used 1.5m^3 for the sake of the argument.

(Source: http://www.teagasc.ie/newsletters/farmin...00518.asp)

A more realistic calculation would've been using hay, but the requires about 4m^3 per sheep.

Anyways, this is my calculation program:

V = 0.5*(pi*r^2)*L
R = (50*0.4572)/2
L = 300*0.4572

V_sheep = 1*1*0.5
animals = 16000
V_sheeps = V_sheep *animals

V_bales = 1.5*animals

V_% = ((V_sheeps+V_bales)/V)*100

And thus, the great ark would've been 114% full. (Maybe my calculations needs checking).

If we've used 50 000 animals and hay instead of maize silage, the ark would've been 900% full.

Of course, my calculations doesn't include water storage, extra supplement storage, walkways for Noah and his tireless crew, living quarters for them, sewage waste.

We can only be very happy that Noah pulled this off and luckily no animals died on the voyage.

Incoming Sarcasm

except since god is all powerful, He just Zapped all of the animals to not have the need to eat or drink or poop and they just slept and were shrunk down into the size of mice and placed into small cardboard boxes while The ship had a force field around it that made it immune to touching water or being effected by the wind and simply floated in mid air above while everything happened...because magic that everyone knows actually exists in our world....because magicians exist.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
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09-06-2014, 05:04 PM
RE: Noah's Ark Calculation
(09-06-2014 10:42 AM)jockmcdock Wrote:  Excellent effort!!! I'm impressed. Having done a fair bit of mathematical modelling myself, I'm aware you have to make assumptions and simplifications. But the choice of a sheep as an "average" animal is a decent choice.

Two small points. Water storage would not be a problem. They had just had 40 days and 40 nights of rain which covered even Mt Everest and it was rainwater, so the salt level would have been very low. So, all they had to do was sling a bucket over the side and...voila...fresh water.

Similarly, waste wouldn't have been a problem. Just sling the old John or Jane Thomas and/or Mr/Mrs Stinkypink over the side and let rip. Just don't do it at the same time as you're drawing water, of course (you really don't want the chunky bits). But the volume of water would ensure the pollution level was negligible.

How long did the flood last? Well, this Christian site says one year and 10 days.

http://beyondflannelgraph.wordpress.com/...lood-last/

We had a flood thread a few months ago in which I and others pointed out that during the flood water pressure at current sea levels would be around 800 times the current atmospheric pressure, it would be pitch-black dark and no photosynthesis could take place. When the flood subsided, there would be no vegetation. None. So, Noah would have had to store enough food for just over a year (in theory) and a lot longer in practice since no vegetation would have survived for the herbivores. Would it even regenerate? And what about the carnivores? Keeping meat without a freezer for a year? Euwww. And where did Noah store this food?

50,000 animals. Most have male/female divides. So, that's about 25,000 "kinds". I love how IDers diss evolution but claim these "kinds" developed into thousands of different species but somehow this is not evolution!!!???!! If Noah took on just 2 snakes, how did we end up with around 2700 species just 6000 years later? What about flutterbies (my preferred spelling). There's about 28000 different species now. IDers often demand we show transitional forms but never show any themselves. Hmmm.

Thanks! I'm aware off all those points. I was actually referring to the flow networks of water to all animals, and the temporary storage of the recent waste.

Remember, a sheep produce about 2kg of manure per day. So with my 16 000 sheep model, there will be 32 tons of shit that Noah and is miraculous crew would need to move from their respective cages through a complex wooden structure.

That means apart from feeding the animals, every member has to throw 4000kg of shit out of the ship every day.

Now, another big factor taken out of calculation was the reinforcement beams that would've hold the ship together and the corridors where the crew would've moved. This would've also taken about at least 20% of space.

But, my model was simply a volumetric calculation in which I wanted to refute the ark totally. (If it hasn't been refuted enough)
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09-06-2014, 05:11 PM
Information RE: Noah's Ark Calculation
(09-06-2014 12:01 PM)Doubting Thomas Wrote:  What I always wondered was if God was so almighty and powerful then why didn't he just re-create all the animals that he destroyed? Why put a 600 year old man through hell just so God can commit mass murder?

I guess God works in mysterious ways Hobo

When I discuss the Ark with Bible literalists and point out a few flaws, I always get the answer that God made it possible and Noah got help from God.

I may be a bit ignorant or bit close-minded, but as I've witnessed in my life, Yahweh doesn't seem to act in any visible or miraculous way. Now why would he created the most complex situation which was impossible for a few humans to handle, to destroy mankind, when he simply could've let every sinful human vanish. Mysterious indeed.

And people for sorry for me because of my beliefs.Huh
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09-06-2014, 07:31 PM
RE: Noah's Ark Calculation
I would like to point out that fresh water would have been a huge problem. The rain would have mixed with salt water. The water across the earth would then be brackish.

WARNING. Banjo is currently on an experimental drug. The drug causes neurological problems. To put it in perspective, I am on $25,000.00 of drugs per week. Plus others. If I seem crazy, please ignore me. I am. I can be okay then simply lose my mind. Many thanks. Banjo.
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09-06-2014, 08:03 PM
RE: Noah's Ark Calculation
until you can prove god can't do magic, then your anti Ark evidence is moot .

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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