Noah's Ark & Other Things
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30-03-2016, 09:19 AM
RE: Noah's Ark & Other Things
A lot of Christians believe most of the Genesis stories are allegory or poetry. I don't think there are as many ark believers as the OP insinuates. Am I wrong?

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30-03-2016, 10:01 AM
RE: Noah's Ark & Other Things
(30-03-2016 09:19 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  A lot of Christians believe most of the Genesis stories are allegory or poetry. I don't think there are as many ark believers as the OP insinuates. Am I wrong?

There's also a lot of xtians that believe that the genesis stories are the word of god and are true. These fundamentalists are becoming ever more vocal as their god becomes ever more marginalised by science.

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30-03-2016, 10:09 AM
RE: Noah's Ark & Other Things
(30-03-2016 10:01 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 09:19 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  A lot of Christians believe most of the Genesis stories are allegory or poetry. I don't think there are as many ark believers as the OP insinuates. Am I wrong?

There's also a lot of xtians that believe that the genesis stories are the word of god and are true. These fundamentalists are becoming ever more vocal as their god becomes ever more marginalised by science.

Well, I wasn't disputing that there are some Christians that believe every word of the bible is true, but my point was that the OP made it seem like all Christians believe in the Ark story. I don't see that.

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30-03-2016, 10:43 AM (This post was last modified: 30-03-2016 10:55 AM by god has no twitter account.)
RE: Noah's Ark & Other Things
(30-03-2016 10:09 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 10:01 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  There's also a lot of xtians that believe that the genesis stories are the word of god and are true. These fundamentalists are becoming ever more vocal as their god becomes ever more marginalised by science.

Well, I wasn't disputing that there are some Christians that believe every word of the bible is true, but my point was that the OP made it seem like all Christians believe in the Ark story. I don't see that.

I read OP post in the wider context in that it isn't just Noah and his flood that is at issue. It's not just the fact that Aus is full of strange animals. Where did the water for the flood come from? Where did it go? To get that many animals into the arc that quickly raises the odds issue too. I don't remember the babble saying that the arc had an aquarium because the salt-water fish and the fresh water fish would all be dead due to changes in the salinity. Also, two animals of every species isn't biologically sustainable so why do we still have animals at all is more to the point.

Of course, then there's the mystery of the exodus.

The babble is full of facts which aren't. I don't understand how xtians cope with that level of cognitive dissonance.

I felt that the point that the OP was making was that the babble is laughable. It's so full of holes, it's ridiculous. Only someone who is ignorant, willful or otherwise, can believe in it. And yet, 2.2 billion xtians believe and that kind of number is, in any currency, large.

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30-03-2016, 10:54 AM
RE: Noah's Ark & Other Things
(30-03-2016 10:43 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 10:09 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  Well, I wasn't disputing that there are some Christians that believe every word of the bible is true, but my point was that the OP made it seem like all Christians believe in the Ark story. I don't see that.

I read OP post in the wider context in that it isn't just Noah and his flood that is at issue. It's not just the fact that Aus is full of strange animals. Where did the water for the flood come from? Where did it go? To get that many animals into the arc that quickly raises the odds issue too. I don't remember the babble saying that the arc had an aquarium because the salt-water fish and the fresh water fish would all be dead due to changes in the alkalinity. Also, two animals of every species isn't biologically sustainable so why do we still have animals at all is more to the point.

Of course, then there's the mystery of the exodus.

The babble is full of facts which aren't. I don't understand how xtians cope with that level of cognitive dissonance.

I felt that the point that the OP was making was that the babble is laughable. It's so full of holes, it's ridiculous. Only someone who is ignorant, willful or otherwise, can believe in it. And yet, 2.2 billion xtians believe and that kind of number is, in any currency, large.

The fact is, very few Christians believe in every word of the bible. Most don't even associate with the OT and merely cherry pick what they want from it. Why aren't people asking how the Jews could believe in the OT and the Ark? Why is it always Christians?

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30-03-2016, 11:05 AM
RE: Noah's Ark & Other Things
(30-03-2016 10:54 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  
(30-03-2016 10:43 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  I read OP post in the wider context in that it isn't just Noah and his flood that is at issue. It's not just the fact that Aus is full of strange animals. Where did the water for the flood come from? Where did it go? To get that many animals into the arc that quickly raises the odds issue too. I don't remember the babble saying that the arc had an aquarium because the salt-water fish and the fresh water fish would all be dead due to changes in the alkalinity. Also, two animals of every species isn't biologically sustainable so why do we still have animals at all is more to the point.

Of course, then there's the mystery of the exodus.

The babble is full of facts which aren't. I don't understand how xtians cope with that level of cognitive dissonance.

I felt that the point that the OP was making was that the babble is laughable. It's so full of holes, it's ridiculous. Only someone who is ignorant, willful or otherwise, can believe in it. And yet, 2.2 billion xtians believe and that kind of number is, in any currency, large.

The fact is, very few Christians believe in every word of the bible. Most don't even associate with the OT and merely cherry pick what they want from it. Why aren't people asking how the Jews could believe in the OT and the Ark? Why is it always Christians?

OK, before we go any further, we need to define some terms - otherwise this discussion will go round in circles and will achieve nothing.

When you say "very few Christians believe", what specifically are you saying? Please give me some idea of percentages and we'll take it from there.

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30-03-2016, 11:21 AM
RE: Noah's Ark & Other Things
Giving you a percentage isn't defining a term. The percentage isn't germane to this anyway. No matter what number you're given, it won't change the fact that the OP implied all Christians felt that way. I dispute this. Do I really need documented proof that all Christians don't believe every word of the bible as truth? My initial point pertained to the Ark and somehow you've interjected here with another argument and one that isn't worth discussing. Do you believe all Christians believe the ark story is true and not a lesson? If so, then we have an argument, if not, then why are you wasting my time?

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30-03-2016, 11:41 AM
RE: Noah's Ark & Other Things
(30-03-2016 11:21 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  Giving you a percentage isn't defining a term. The percentage isn't germane to this anyway. No matter what number you're given, it won't change the fact that the OP implied all Christians felt that way. I dispute this. Do I really need documented proof that all Christians don't believe every word of the bible as truth? My initial point pertained to the Ark and somehow you've interjected here with another argument and one that isn't worth discussing. Do you believe all Christians believe the ark story is true and not a lesson? If so, then we have an argument, if not, then why are you wasting my time?

Here's what OP actually wrote:

How can the Christian theists explain the fact that after the great flood subsided, the kangaroo and the koala found their way to only one isolated, distant island on the planet? Why are there none to be found in any other country? I'll accept that the platypus—being aquatic—could've lasted long enough in a mild saline environment in order to swim to Australia (instead of, say, Madagascar which is closer), but neither the kangaroo or the koala is capable of swimming, and there was no connecting land mass for them to traverse.

And with regards to birds, how is it that crows (genus Corvus) are found in every country on the planet, whilst the cassowary (genus Casuarius) is only found in Australia? This just doesn't make any sense from a logical perspective.

There's a lot more questions surrounding the myth of Noah's ark and the flood, but these are a couple of the simpler ones for the theists to address.

(And yes, I know there's a few other Noah threads here, but I was interested from an Aussie perspective considering the number of unique animals we have here.)


Here's what you initially wrote:

A lot of Christians believe most of the Genesis stories are allegory or poetry. I don't think there are as many ark believers as the OP insinuates. Am I wrong?

I have read the OP. I can find no mention, direct or implied, of the numbers/ percentage of xtians that believe in the ark story in the babble. I therefore found your statement "there are as many ark believers as the OP insinuates." confusing since the OP did not insinuate any kind of number.

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30-03-2016, 11:47 AM
RE: Noah's Ark & Other Things
"Christian theists" and "the theists" imply all. If the OP qualified this with "fundamental" or even "some" then I wouldn't even have batted an eye. Hence, I wrote "a lot" because if I had written "Christian theists believe Genesis is poetry or allegory" it would have implied all of them felt that way and you would be arguing in the exact same manner as I am now.

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30-03-2016, 11:58 AM
RE: Noah's Ark & Other Things
(30-03-2016 11:47 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  "Christian theists" and "the theists" imply all. If the OP qualified this with "fundamental" or even "some" then I wouldn't even have batted an eye. Hence, I wrote "a lot" because if I had written "Christian theists believe Genesis is poetry or allegory" it would have implied all of them felt that way and you would be arguing in the exact same manner as I am now.

I took "the christian theists" to mean "the CHRISTIAN theists" as opposed to "the ISLAMIST theists" or "the belief system X theists" and not as ALL christian theists.

Reading the post yet again, I don't feel that OP implied that his statement applied to ALL christians. Had he meant all, he surely would have written all.

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