Noah's Ark - The REAL Story
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 4 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
29-04-2010, 02:27 PM
RE: Noah's Ark - The REAL Story
Noah's Ark is similiar to the Atrahasis flood myth. Also, it has similarities to other myths and legends of the time Genesis was written. Due to this, religious scholars believe that the author of genesis took these legends and myths and created his own interpretation of them. Learned this in college, like I have stresses in another thread I learned a lot here.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-04-2010, 03:44 PM
 
RE: Noah's Ark - The REAL Story
(29-04-2010 02:02 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(29-04-2010 01:11 PM)supermanlives1973 Wrote:  Let me quickly clarify the reason for this thread...

In the Loopholes thread, discussion had come up regarding biblical stories and their truth (!), the main one discussed being Noah's Ark.

The recent news item had come up, and I had posted a link to Pharyngula where PZ Meyers dismantled the story, along with his links to other articles doing the same.

I thought that, since I had recently found the BBC documentary I posted above, we could have a separate thread to discuss the Noah's Ark story (its origins, parallels...in essence, debunk the Old Testament story that all 3 religions believe in).

Hope that clarifies that.

How would, as you put it "in essence, debunk the Old Testament story that all 3 religions believe in"? Let's say the flood happened and there were three groups of people scattered over the earth, would you not expect them to have a flood story also, after all they got flooded too?
(29-04-2010 11:29 AM)supermanlives1973 Wrote:  The series definitely lends credence to the fact that NO evidence (as expected by Christian) will be found to suggest the biblical version is true.

What would interest me is if evidence of the REAL Sumerian king of the story is possibly based on is found that it would put all these Christian ramblings to silence, once and for all. Well, we'd hope anyway... Wink

What evidence would like to see to prove the Biblical perspective that the flood occurred? You said there was NO evidence to suggest the Biblical version is true.

Wouldn't three separate groups of people all believing the same thing show proof that a flood happened?
Quote this message in a reply
29-04-2010, 04:29 PM
 
RE: Noah's Ark - The REAL Story
Yes, it would. Many floods do happen too, quite routinely actually. Especially during the rainy season of various regions. In fact, it's entirely possible for it to rain, continuously, for weeks on end, in certain locales.

That said. Why is there no supportive evidence for a global flood of mythical proportions? Well for starters, there isn't enough water on earth, to flood it in such a manner to begin with. Even if you melted all of the ice sheets on the planet, and pulled out all of the ground water to the surface, it would only submerge those areas close to sea level.

Secondly, you would see evidence of such a catastrophic event...everywhere.

Thirdly, where did the water go after flooding the earth in thousands of feet of water?

Obviously, I'm just pointing out the really obvious physical points here. I can go into a more technical breakdown, though I don't really think it's necessary.
Quote this message in a reply
29-04-2010, 04:38 PM
 
RE: Noah's Ark - The REAL Story
In response to all comments posted so far, the video touches upon Atra-hasis, upon the required evidence for a global deluge (which none exists), and for the amount of water we would get out of all known sources on the earth (underground springs, the ice sheets, from rocks and from the atmosphere), as well as the consequences of having the entire surface covered with water.

martin, I would recommend watching the 5-parts of the video to get the answers to your questions.

omega21, I concur with your statement. If what you are learning comes from scholarly sources (which I have no doubt it is), then the video is also based on scholarly sources (archaeology is referenced a great deal).

Ceryle, not much to say to you since you're stream of thought is down my alley. Smile
Quote this message in a reply
29-04-2010, 04:42 PM
 
RE: Noah's Ark - The REAL Story
As it seems to be up in the air, I'll simply clarify that the three faiths we are talking about, each diverged from a singular point; thus the reason why we may classify them as Abrahamic faiths.
Quote this message in a reply
29-04-2010, 04:46 PM
 
RE: Noah's Ark - The REAL Story
Is it really three seperate groups providing "evidence" if all three groups are using a shared source for the evidence? The christians and muslims adopted many stories from the hebrew bible, so it seems to me that there is only one source of information not three.
Quote this message in a reply
29-04-2010, 04:47 PM
 
RE: Noah's Ark - The REAL Story
(29-04-2010 04:29 PM)Ceryle Wrote:  Yes, it would. Many floods do happen too, quite routinely actually. Especially during the rainy season of various regions. In fact, it's entirely possible for it to rain, continuously, for weeks on end, in certain locales.

That said. Why is there no supportive evidence for a global flood of mythical proportions? Well for starters, there isn't enough water on earth, to flood it in such a manner to begin with. Even if you melted all of the ice sheets on the planet, and pulled out all of the ground water to the surface, it would only submerge those areas close to sea level.

Secondly, you would see evidence of such a catastrophic event...everywhere.

Thirdly, where did the water go after flooding the earth in thousands of feet of water?

Obviously, I'm just pointing out the really obvious physical points here. I can go into a more technical breakdown, though I don't really think it's necessary.

As to where the water went, this should be easy for critical thinkers, but let me help. Mean height above sea level is 2250 feet, mean depth of ocean is 12480 feet, "

* abundance of water on Earth’s surface (in ocean (Earth feature))...the elevated land could be hidden under the oceans and the Earth reduced to a smooth sphere that would be completely covered by a continuous layer of seawater 2,686 metres deep. This is known as the sphere depth of the oceans and serves to underscore the abundance of water on the Earth’s surface."

My answer comes from Encyclopedia Britannica, if you have an issue, talk to them.

I guess that answers the water question. The problem is with 2 minutes of searching you could have found the answer yourself. I knew of it before because I heard it, but it took a matter of minutes to find the answer IF YOU ARE TRULY LOOKING! So show me your sources that here is not enough water and we can compare sources.
Quote this message in a reply
29-04-2010, 05:02 PM
 
RE: Noah's Ark - The REAL Story
So, your rebuttal, is that Yahweh smoothed the earth into a featureless landscape, and then returned it afterwards, with no evidence of these drastic and traumatic events occurring in the geological record? Or am I mistaken...in which case I don't really understand what you're stating.

If you're going to argue the point that it was magic, then I suppose I don't really have much of a defense in that category; despite the fact that magic isn't real. I mean...I'll just rip apart the story itself I suppose.
Quote this message in a reply
29-04-2010, 05:05 PM
 
RE: Noah's Ark - The REAL Story
I think he means a smooth water surface with all the terrain features covered by the water.
Quote this message in a reply
29-04-2010, 05:22 PM
RE: Noah's Ark - The REAL Story
(29-04-2010 04:47 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  As to where the water went, this should be easy for critical thinkers, but let me help. Mean height above sea level is 2250 feet, mean depth of ocean is 12480 feet, "

* abundance of water on Earth’s surface (in ocean (Earth feature))...the elevated land could be hidden under the oceans and the Earth reduced to a smooth sphere that would be completely covered by a continuous layer of seawater 2,686 metres deep.

While this is true, the highest point on earth is over eight thousand meters above sea level. As you are measuring against the mean, this would leave quite a bit of Earth's surface above water, and does nothing to support the evidence of a flood.

Quote:I guess that answers the water question.

Except that the volume you suggest isn't nearly enough to cover the entire Earth.

Quote:The problem is with 2 minutes of searching you could have found the answer yourself. I knew of it before because I heard it, but it took a matter of minutes to find the answer IF YOU ARE TRULY LOOKING! So show me your sources that here is not enough water and we can compare sources.

Okay. Here are my calculations.

Start with the oceans already in place. We have to cover the rest of the Earth in water, so we have to have a body of water with a depth of 8,848 meters (the height of Mount Everest). So to find the volume of water required to cover the Earth in an ocean 8,848m deep, we take 8,848 and multiply it by the surface area of the Earth: 510,072,000 kilometers. 8,848 meters equals 8.848 kilometers, so our final result is 4,513,117,056 cubic kilometers of water.

So now we know how much we need. Now we need to look at how much we have, so here's a list. Here, we have 29,492,000 cubic kilometers from ice, 6,733,000 from groundwater, 74,000 from soil moisture, and 14,000 from wator vapor in the atmosphere. We don't use the amount from the oceans, lakes and rivers because they are already part of the water "bubble".
It all totals up to... 36,313,000 cubic kilometers of water, well short of our target figure of 4,513,117,056. There simply is not enough water on Earth to cover the entire surface.

So now what, martin?

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: