Noahs ark found in turkey, what is the scientific explanation?
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13-12-2012, 08:27 PM
RE: Noahs ark found in turkey, what is the scientific explanation?
(13-12-2012 06:57 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  "Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein


Much more enjoyably too. Beats bible lessons and church on Sunday hands down.
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13-12-2012, 08:34 PM (This post was last modified: 13-12-2012 08:40 PM by Janus.)
RE: Noahs ark found in turkey, what is the scientific explanation?
(13-12-2012 06:57 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  
(13-12-2012 06:06 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  But basically you can't find fictional story ships on the top of mountains.
It's like finding a piece of sheet metal in the dessert and claiming it's from the Death Star in Star Wars.
I wouldn't rule it out. That thing exploded. Big time. I know it was a galaxy far far away, but it was, after all, a long time ago. Who knows where all the Deathstar metal ended up? Maybe it was long enough ago for some of that metal to end up here on earth.


Just like those Mars rocks that supposedly were chipped off of Mars by an asteroid or comet impact, then flung across 100 million miles of gravity holes and bumps infested space to land in Earth's Antarctica, where 'we' found them. Someone had very good aim!
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13-12-2012, 08:46 PM
RE: Noahs ark found in turkey, what is the scientific explanation?
(13-12-2012 08:34 PM)Janus Wrote:  
(13-12-2012 06:57 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  I wouldn't rule it out. That thing exploded. Big time. I know it was a galaxy far far away, but it was, after all, a long time ago. Who knows where all the Deathstar metal ended up? Maybe it was long enough ago for some of that metal to end up here on earth.


Just like those Mars rocks that supposedly were chipped off of Mars by an asteroid or comet impact, then flung across 100 million miles of gravity holes and bumps infested space to land in Earth's Antarctica, where 'we' found them. Someone had very good aim!
Your incredulity doesn't make it untrue. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-12-2012, 09:03 PM
RE: Noahs ark found in turkey, what is the scientific explanation?
(13-12-2012 08:34 PM)Janus Wrote:  
(13-12-2012 06:57 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  I wouldn't rule it out. That thing exploded. Big time. I know it was a galaxy far far away, but it was, after all, a long time ago. Who knows where all the Deathstar metal ended up? Maybe it was long enough ago for some of that metal to end up here on earth.


Just like those Mars rocks that supposedly were chipped off of Mars by an asteroid or comet impact, then flung across 100 million miles of gravity holes and bumps infested space to land in Earth's Antarctica, where 'we' found them. Someone had very good aim!

Gravity holes. k. Drinking Beverage

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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13-12-2012, 09:23 PM
RE: Noahs ark found in turkey, what is the scientific explanation?
(13-12-2012 06:06 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  So why couldn't this be Utnapishtim's ark ?
The epic of Gilgamesh was written long before the's story of Noah.


But basically you can't find fictional story ships on the top of mountains.
It's like finding a piece of sheet metal in the dessert and claiming it's from the Death Star in Star Wars.

It seems like every time Noah's Ark is brought up as a topic, somebody mentions the Epic of Gilgamesh. I don't, and there's a good reason -- it's fallacious. It's called Cum Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc, or the belief that just because two things have similarities that one thing must have caused the other. It's quite possible that the story of Noah's Ark was stolen from this epic, but there's simply no way to know that for certain. It's even possible that the epic was stolen from the story of Noah's ark; just because the epic was written first doesn't mean that it was told first orally. But it seems more likely that they both came from the same source, an exaggeration of real events: a middle-eastern flood that didn't cover the whole Earth but might have seemed like it to those people living in the region.

It's interesting that the stories have a lot in common, but it really ought not to be used as an argument against the story of Noah's Ark.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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13-12-2012, 10:38 PM
RE: Noahs ark found in turkey, what is the scientific explanation?
(13-12-2012 09:23 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(13-12-2012 06:06 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  So why couldn't this be Utnapishtim's ark ?
The epic of Gilgamesh was written long before the's story of Noah.


But basically you can't find fictional story ships on the top of mountains.
It's like finding a piece of sheet metal in the dessert and claiming it's from the Death Star in Star Wars.

It seems like every time Noah's Ark is brought up as a topic, somebody mentions the Epic of Gilgamesh. I don't, and there's a good reason -- it's fallacious. It's called Cum Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc, or the belief that just because two things have similarities that one thing must have caused the other. It's quite possible that the story of Noah's Ark was stolen from this epic, but there's simply no way to know that for certain. It's even possible that the epic was stolen from the story of Noah's ark; just because the epic was written first doesn't mean that it was told first orally. But it seems more likely that they both came from the same source, an exaggeration of real events: a middle-eastern flood that didn't cover the whole Earth but might have seemed like it to those people living in the region.

It's interesting that the stories have a lot in common, but it really ought not to be used as an argument against the story of Noah's Ark.


Considering that the Epic of Gilgamesh was a Babylonian myth, and the story of Noah's Ark first appeared around the time the Babylonian Captivity was ending, and there are numerous similarities between the two... It's not just conjecture. People A are exposed to People B's culture for a hundred years, then People A start having culture that's very, very similar to People B's culture... Connect the fucking dots, man.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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13-12-2012, 10:47 PM
RE: Noahs ark found in turkey, what is the scientific explanation?
(13-12-2012 10:38 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  
(13-12-2012 09:23 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  It seems like every time Noah's Ark is brought up as a topic, somebody mentions the Epic of Gilgamesh. I don't, and there's a good reason -- it's fallacious. It's called Cum Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc, or the belief that just because two things have similarities that one thing must have caused the other. It's quite possible that the story of Noah's Ark was stolen from this epic, but there's simply no way to know that for certain. It's even possible that the epic was stolen from the story of Noah's ark; just because the epic was written first doesn't mean that it was told first orally. But it seems more likely that they both came from the same source, an exaggeration of real events: a middle-eastern flood that didn't cover the whole Earth but might have seemed like it to those people living in the region.

It's interesting that the stories have a lot in common, but it really ought not to be used as an argument against the story of Noah's Ark.


Considering that the Epic of Gilgamesh was a Babylonian myth, and the story of Noah's Ark first appeared around the time the Babylonian Captivity was ending, and there are numerous similarities between the two... It's not just conjecture. People A are exposed to People B's culture for a hundred years, then People A start having culture that's very, very similar to People B's culture... Connect the fucking dots, man.
"Fucking dots" only connect to make a picture if somebody set it up to be so, otherwise you're making a picture of your own imagination. Something following another thing, even if they *seem* related, are not necessarily so. One would have to prove causation, and I'm not sure that's even possible so long after the fact.

Yes, it's conjecture. Yes, it's a fallacy. The fact that one follows the other and that there are "numerous similarities" are points I addressed, and they still fall within the definition of "correlation" only, not "causation".

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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13-12-2012, 11:01 PM
RE: Noahs ark found in turkey, what is the scientific explanation?
(13-12-2012 10:47 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(13-12-2012 10:38 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Considering that the Epic of Gilgamesh was a Babylonian myth, and the story of Noah's Ark first appeared around the time the Babylonian Captivity was ending, and there are numerous similarities between the two... It's not just conjecture. People A are exposed to People B's culture for a hundred years, then People A start having culture that's very, very similar to People B's culture... Connect the fucking dots, man.
"Fucking dots" only connect to make a picture if somebody set it up to be so, otherwise you're making a picture of your own imagination. Something following another thing, even if they *seem* related, are not necessarily so. One would have to prove causation, and I'm not sure that's even possible so long after the fact.

Yes, it's conjecture. Yes, it's a fallacy. The fact that one follows the other and that there are "numerous similarities" are points I addressed, and they still fall within the definition of "correlation" only, not "causation".


It falls under likely causation.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-12-2012, 11:07 PM
RE: Noahs ark found in turkey, what is the scientific explanation?
(13-12-2012 11:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  It falls under likely causation.
I agree. But to be logical, it would have to be necessary causation.

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13-12-2012, 11:17 PM
RE: Noahs ark found in turkey, what is the scientific explanation?
(13-12-2012 11:07 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(13-12-2012 11:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  It falls under likely causation.
I agree. But to be logical, it would have to be necessary causation.
Doesn't change that we have two myths both postulating boat up mountain. If they're gonna take it as Noah's and not Utnapishtim's then they gotta somehow differentiate. However my bet is that they'd say 'Utnapishtim = Noah' and leave it at that.
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