Non-Belief and Race
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
29-10-2013, 03:30 PM
Non-Belief and Race
I was reading an article on Salon about Egyptians who had freed themselves from superstition, and while I've previously wondered about the subject of Race and Religion, I guess I was slightly befuddled at the suggestion that atheism was primarily "..limited to the "Westernized" urban elite." While that's clearly not true, I guess it can seem that way, at times.

Last night, I listened to FFRF's latest podcast, and a black female author named Candace R. Gorham spoke, which made me think about something that I *think* Sikuvu Hutchinson said regarding white non-believers. I'm trying to find the quote, as it would really help what I'm attempting to bring up here, but it basically mentioned white people going to conventions/conferences and the fact that it seems like it's almost its own little bubble. (to the exclusion of other races, though not intentionally) Please pardon the paraphrase, as it truly doesn't do the quote justice; if I can find it, I'll post it, asap.

This is troubling, as I've never seen non-belief as limited to any particular demographic, in principle. While it's true that I've seen mostly Caucasians at the conventions/meet-ups I've attended, I think it's safe/obvious to say that that's not on purpose. I'm sure everyone here would agree that *numbers* and not *specific groups* of attendees are what collectively thrill us the most.

It's hard to know exactly how to start a conversation like this, but I'd really like to get feedback from non-believers of all nationalities on this forum. If you're here, and you've thought about this issue at all, please chime in.

"If you wake up tomorrow morning thinking that saying a few Latin words over your pancakes is going to turn them into the body of Elvis Presley, you have lost your mind. But if you think, more or less, the same thing about a cracker and the body of Jesus, you're just a Catholic."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-10-2013, 03:36 PM
RE: Non-Belief and Race
I can see a link. It's already been established that higher education leads to a slightly higher chance of a person being atheist, and in many areas white people still have a much higher probability of attending college, so the assumption based on these statistics is that there would be a larger percentage of white people who identify as atheists. It's definitely not a rule though, and the numbers of minority races attending college is rising in many areas so hopefully we will see a greater diversity in the future.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who has said it- not even if I have said it- unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Buddha
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Ohio Sky's post
29-10-2013, 03:43 PM
RE: Non-Belief and Race
I think it's not only about access to education, but the dominant place white people occupy in the social pyramid. Being on top usually gives a sense of security and independence, those two things are a fertile ground for doubt and inquiry. It also makes it easier to come out and to defy some some social backlash that can come with it.

[Image: sigvacachica.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes nach_in's post
29-10-2013, 04:03 PM
RE: Non-Belief and Race
I remember Neil deGrasse Tyson saying how when he was applying for university another black student told him that he shouldn't be studying astrophysics because it wasn't beneficial to the black community...

Surely a black professor of astrophysics would automatically destroy many racial prejudices and give black kids in poor neighbourhoods something to aspire towards.

But I don't agree with the concept of race at all... The differences between us are so trivial, and talking about skin colour as if it matters ultimately just drives a big wedge between us. Not the same wedge as deliberate segregation and discrimination, but a wedge all the same...

Not really in keeping with anything Humanism stands for. We are ALL Africans...

[img]

via GIPHY

[/img]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Sam's post
29-10-2013, 04:12 PM
RE: Non-Belief and Race
(29-10-2013 03:43 PM)nach_in Wrote:  I think it's not only about access to education, but the dominant place white people occupy in the social pyramid. Being on top usually gives a sense of security and independence, those two things are a fertile ground for doubt and inquiry. It also makes it easier to come out and to defy some some social backlash that can come with it.

That's probably part of it too. And the areas (such as much of Europe and the US) that are the most liberal when it comes to religious acceptance also tend to be predominantly white. I suppose the reasons for this could be an entirely new conversation.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who has said it- not even if I have said it- unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Buddha
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-10-2013, 05:20 PM
RE: Non-Belief and Race
If there is a link between race and religion, it is only because people choose to buy into racial stereotypes and roles. I personally couldn't care less which race has the most or least atheists or theists or whatever. Can you explain to me the DNA difference between different races? If not then I'm not really interested.
I'm not trying to be rude about your thread. I just hope you realize that this kind of stuff just encourages people to separate themselves from people of other races.

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
29-10-2013, 05:27 PM
RE: Non-Belief and Race
I am a member of a free thinkers group of color that has a very low membership simply because there are very few people of color who are atheists, agnostics, free thinkers, etc.

Now if we look at why this group didn't want to join together in the primarily white larger group of atheists, you may get to the answer of why there aren't that many atheists of color.

When you can't in good conscience attend the social groups of your own family (often this is church) and you don't feel comfortable in a room full of white men and some white women, you just tend to keep to yourself.

When you talk about black people who are educated lets look at a list of Historical Black Colleges and their religious affiliations


Alabama A&M University Huntsville Alabama 1875 Public
Alabama State University Montgomery Alabama 1867 Public
Albany State University Albany Georgia 1903 Public Founded as "Albany Bible and Manual Training Institute"
Alcorn State University Lorman Mississippi 1871 Public
Allen University Columbia South Carolina 1870 Private African Methodist Episcopal Founded as "Payne Institute"
American Baptist College Nashville Tennessee 1924 Private Federal designation as a historically Black college or university was awarded on March 20, 2013 by the U.S. Education Department. [3]
University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff Pine Bluff Arkansas 1873 Public Founded as "Branch Normal College"
Arkansas Baptist College Little Rock Arkansas 1884 Private Baptist Founded as "Minister’s Institute"[4]
Barber-Scotia College Concord North Carolina 1867 Private Presbyterian Founded as two institutions, Scotia Seminary and Barber Memorial College
Benedict College Columbia South Carolina 1870 Private American Baptist Churches USA Founded as "Benedict Institute"
Bennett College Greensboro North Carolina 1873 Private United Methodist Church Founded as "Bennett Seminary"
Bethune-Cookman University Daytona Beach Florida 1904 Private United Methodist Church Founded as "Daytona Educational and Industrial Training School for Negro Girls"
Bishop State Community College Mobile Alabama 1927 Public Originally a branch of Alabama State College
Bluefield State College Bluefield West Virginia 1895 Public Founded as "Bluefield Colored Institute"
Bowie State University Bowie Maryland 1865 Public Founded as "Baltimore Normal School"
Central State University Wilberforce Ohio 1887 Public AME Church Originally a department at Wilberforce University[5]
Cheyney University of Pennsylvania Cheyney Pennsylvania 1837 Public The oldest HBCU. Founded by Quaker philanthropist Richard Humphreys as "Institute for Colored Youth"
Claflin University Orangeburg South Carolina 1869 Private United Methodist Church
Clark Atlanta University Atlanta Georgia 1865 Private United Methodist Church Originally two institutions, Clark College and Atlanta University
Clinton Junior College Rock Hill South Carolina 1894 Private AME Zion Founded as "Clinton Institute"[6]
Coahoma Community College Coahoma County Mississippi 1924 Public Founded as "Coahoma County Agricultural High School"
Concordia College, Selma Selma Alabama 1922 Private Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod Known as "Alabama Lutheran Academy and Junior College" until 1981
Coppin State University Baltimore Maryland 1900 Public Founded as "Colored High School"
Delaware State University Dover Delaware 1891 Public Founded as "The State College for Colored Students"
Denmark Technical College Denmark South Carolina 1947 Public Founded as "Denmark Area Trade School"[7]
Dillard University New Orleans Louisiana 1869 Private United Church of Christ and the United Methodist Church Founding predecessor institutions: "Straight University" and "Union Normal School"
University of the District of Columbia Washington District of Columbia 1851 Public Founded as "Miner Normal School"
Edward Waters College Jacksonville Florida 1866 Private AME Church Founded as "Brown Theological Institute"
Elizabeth City State University Elizabeth City North Carolina 1891 Public
Fayetteville State University Fayetteville North Carolina 1867 Public Founded as "Howard School"
Fisk University Nashville Tennessee 1866 Private United Church of Christ[8] Named for Clinton Bowen Fisk
Florida A&M University Tallahassee Florida 1887 Public Founded as "State Normal College for Colored Students"
Florida Memorial University Miami Gardens Florida 1879 Private American Baptist Churches USA Founded as "Florida Baptist Institute in Live Oak"
Fort Valley State University Fort Valley Georgia 1895 Public Founded as "Fort Valley High and Industrial School"
Gadsden State Community College Gadsden Alabama 1925 Public Founded as "Alabama School of Trades"
Grambling State University Grambling Louisiana 1901 Public Founded as "Colored Industrial and Agricultural School"
Hampton University Hampton Virginia 1868 Private Founded as "Hampton Normal and Agricultural Institute"
Harris-Stowe State University St. Louis Missouri 1857 Public Founded as "St. Louis Normal School" for whites in 1857, with Stowe Teachers College begun in 1890 for blacks; merged in 1954 [9]
Hinds Community College at Utica Utica Mississippi 1903 Public Founded as "Utica Junior College"
Howard University Washington District of Columbia 1867 Private Founded as "Howard Normal and Theological School for the Education of Teachers and Preachers"
Huston-Tillotson University Austin Texas 1881 Private United Methodist Church /United Church of Christ Founded as "Tillotson Collegiate and Normal Institute"
Interdenominational Theological Center Atlanta Georgia 1958 Private Interdenominational
J. F. Drake State Technical College Huntsville Alabama 1961 Public Founded as "Huntsville State Vocational Technical School"
Jackson State University Jackson Mississippi 1877 Public Founded as "Natchez Seminary" by the American Baptist Home Mission Society, became public in 1942
Jarvis Christian College Hawkins Texas 1912 Private The Disciples
Johnson C. Smith University Charlotte North Carolina 1867 Private Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) Founded as "Biddle Memorial Institute"
Kentucky State University Frankfort Kentucky 1886 Public Founded as "State Normal School for Colored Persons"
Knoxville College Knoxville (Mechanicsville) Tennessee 1875 Private United Presbyterian Church of North America
Lane College Jackson Tennessee 1882 Private Christian Methodist Episcopal Church Founded as "Colored Methodist Episcopal High School"[10]
Langston University Langston Oklahoma 1897 Public Founded as "Oklahoma Colored Agricultural and Normal University"
Lawson State Community College Bessemer Alabama 1949 Public
LeMoyne-Owen College Memphis Tennessee 1862 Private United Church of Christ Founded as "LeMoyne Normal and Commercial School"[11] (elementary school until 1870)
Lewis College of Business Detroit Michigan 1928 Private Founded as "Lewis Business College"[12]
Lincoln University Chester County Pennsylvania 1854 Public Founded as "Ashmun Institute"
Lincoln University of Missouri Jefferson City Missouri 1866 Public Founded as "Lincoln Institute"[13]
Livingstone College Salisbury North Carolina 1879 Private AME Zion Founded as "Zion Wesley Institute"
University of Maryland Eastern Shore Princess Anne Maryland 1886 Public Originally: Methodist Episcopal Founded as "Delaware Conference Academy"
Meharry Medical College Nashville Tennessee 1876 Private United Methodist Church Founded as the Medical Department of Central Tennessee College
Miles College Fairfield Alabama 1905 Private CME Church Known until 1941 as "Miles Memorial College"; named after Bishop William H. Miles
Mississippi Valley State University Itta Bena Mississippi 1950 Public Founded as "Mississippi Vocational College"
Morehouse College Atlanta Georgia 1867 Private Originally, American Baptist Home Mission Society Founded as "Augusta Institute"
Morehouse School of Medicine Atlanta Georgia 1975 Private Founded originally as a part of Morehouse College
Morgan State University Baltimore Maryland 1867 Public Originally: Methodist Episcopal Founded as "Centenary Biblical Institute"
Morris Brown College Atlanta Georgia 1881 Private African Methodist Episcopal
Morris College Sumter South Carolina 1908 Private Baptist Educational and Missionary Convention
Norfolk State University Norfolk Virginia 1935 Public Founded as "Norfolk Unit of Virginia Union University"[14]
North Carolina A&T State University Greensboro North Carolina 1891 Public
North Carolina Central University Durham North Carolina 1910 Public Founded as "National Religious Training School and Chautauqua"
Oakwood University Huntsville Alabama 1896 Private Seventh-day Adventist Founded as "Oakwood Industrial School"
Paine College Augusta Georgia 1882 Private United Methodist Church and Christian Methodist Episcopal Church Founded as "Paine Institute"
Paul Quinn College Dallas Texas 1872 Private AME Church Named for William Paul Quinn
Philander Smith College Little Rock Arkansas 1877 Private United Methodist Church Founded as "Walden Seminary"
Prairie View A&M University Prairie View Texas 1876 Public Founded as "Alta Vista Agriculture & Mechanical College for Colored Youth"[15]
Rust College Holly Springs Mississippi 1866 Private United Methodist Church Known as "Shaw University" until 1882
Savannah State University Savannah Georgia 1890 Public Founded as "Georgia State Industrial College for Colored Youth"
Selma University Selma Alabama 1878 Private Alabama State Missionary Baptist Convention Founded as "Alabama Baptist Normal and Theological School"
Shaw University Raleigh North Carolina 1865 Private National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc.
Shorter College Little Rock Arkansas 1886 Private African Methodist Episcopal Unaccredited two-year college; founded as "Bethel University"
Shelton State Community College Tuscaloosa Alabama 1952 Public Founded as "J.P. Shelton Trade School"
South Carolina State University Orangeburg South Carolina 1896 Public Founded as "Colored, Normal, Industrial, Agricultural, and Mechanical College of South Carolina"
Southern University at New Orleans New Orleans Louisiana 1959 Public Founded as a branch unit of Southern University in Baton Rouge
Southern University at Shreveport Shreveport Louisiana 1967 Public Part of the Southern University System
Southern University and A&M College Baton Rouge Louisiana 1881 Public Conceptualized by P. B. S. Pinchback, T. T. Allain, and Henry Demas
Southwestern Christian College Terrell Texas 1948 Private Church of Christ Founded as "Southern Bible Institute"[16]
Spelman College Atlanta Georgia 1881 Private Originally, American Baptist Home Mission Society Founded as "Atlanta Baptist Female Seminary"
St. Augustine's University Raleigh North Carolina 1867 Private Episcopal Church (United States)
St. Philip's College San Antonio Texas 1898 Public Episcopal Church Founded as "St. Philip's Sewing Class for Girls"[17]
Stillman College Tuscaloosa Alabama 1876 Private Founded as Tuscaloosa Institute, the College was a concept of Reverend Dr. Charles Allen Stillman, pastor of First Presbyterian Church of Tuscaloosa[18]
Talladega College Talladega County Alabama 1867 Private United Church of Christ Known as "Swayne School" until 1869
Tennessee State University Nashville Tennessee 1912 Public Founded as "Agricultural and Industrial State Normal School"
Texas College Tyler Texas 1894 Private Christian Methodist Episcopal Church
Texas Southern University Houston Texas 1927 Public Founded as "Texas State University for Negroes"
Tougaloo College Hinds County Mississippi 1869 Private American Missionary Association Founded as "Tougaloo University"
Trenholm State Technical College Montgomery Alabama 1947 Public Founded as "John M. Patterson Technical School"[19]
Tuskegee University Tuskegee Alabama 1881 Private Founded as Tuskegee Institute, now a National Historic Site
University of the Virgin Islands St. Croix & St. Thomas United States Virgin Islands 1962 Public Founded as "College of the Virgin Islands"
Virginia State University Petersburg Virginia 1882 Public Founded as "Virginia Normal and Collegiate Institute at Petersburg"
Virginia Union University Richmond Virginia 1864 Private American Baptist Churches USA Founded as "Wayland Seminary," and merged with Richmond Institute (1865) in 1889[20]
Virginia University of Lynchburg Lynchburg Virginia 1886 Private Baptist Founded as "Lynchburg Baptist Seminary"
Voorhees College Denmark South Carolina 1897 Private Episcopal Church Founded as "Denmark Industrial School"
West Virginia State University Kanawha County West Virginia 1891 Public Founded as "West Virginia Colored Institute"
Wilberforce University Wilberforce Ohio 1856 Private AME Church Named for William Wilberforce
Wiley College Marshall Texas 1873 Private United Methodist Church Named for Isaac William Wiley
Winston-Salem State University Winston-Salem North Carolina 1892 Public Founded as "Slater Industrial and State Normal School"
Xavier University of Louisiana New Orleans Louisiana 1915 Private Roman Catholic Founding predecessor institutions: "St. Katharine Drexel" and the "Sisters of the Blessed Sacrament"

Right here alone you have since 1860 in many cases, over 150 years worth of college educated men and women of color who also have strong ties to their community churches and families.

Most were educated BY the church with the church as their foundation in their education, in their family and it remains this way to this day.

When you think of black people, think of all the people that graduated from these colleges and went on to have families, good jobs and good lives.

Don't reduce an entire race to some inner city urban stereotype.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Rahn127's post
29-10-2013, 05:34 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2013 10:49 PM by evenheathen.)
RE: Non-Belief and Race
Just a thought, but if the subject is viewed internationally I would think it would have a lot less to do with "race" than it would with culture. I think it's a different conversation than when just talking about "westernized" (read America) atheists.

Just trying to clarify the two ideas.

Edit: I would add that the race vs culture perspective is also applicable to American/"westernized" countries, or at least should be.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like evenheathen's post
29-10-2013, 09:34 PM
RE: Non-Belief and Race
(29-10-2013 05:34 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Just a thought, but if the subject is viewed internationally I would think it would have a lot less to do with "race" than it would with culture. I think it's a different conversation than when just talking about "westernized" (read America) atheists.

Just trying to clarify the two ideas.

What he said.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-10-2014, 11:25 PM
RE: Non-Belief and Race
Necroing this thread to point out this article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteveryt...-atheists/

About how priorities for white atheists are different from those of black atheists.

"Faith-based institutions provide resources to these poor and working-class families. They also fight racial discrimination, offer a foundation for community organizing and create access to social welfare, professional networks and educational resources. These are essential issues, and atheists of color often find themselves allied in these missions.

White atheists have a markedly different agenda. They are, on average, more affluent than the general population. Their children don’t attend overcrowded “dropout mills” where they are criminalized, subjected to “drill and kill” curricula and shunted off to prison, subminimum-wage jobs or chronic unemployment. White organizations go to battle over church/state separation and creationism in schools.

They largely ignore the fact that black nonbelievers face a racial and gender divide precipitated by rollbacks on affirmative action, voting rights, affordable housing, reproductive rights, education and job opportunities. With the highest national rates of juvenile incarceration, as well as suspension and expulsion in K-12 schools, African American youth in particular have been deeply impacted by these assaults on civil rights. According to the Education Trust, “If current trends continue, only one in twenty African American students in the state of California will go on to a four-year college or university.”"

Atheism is the only way to truly be free from sin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Colourcraze's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: