Non Biological Conciousness
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10-02-2013, 04:01 PM
RE: Non Biological Conciousness
I thought this thread was going to be about machine consciousness, strong AI. Dodgy

Oh, well, Reltzik already did a good job. There is no evidence for a soul or spirit or life energy.

The evidence from neuroscience supports the hypothesis that the mind is entirely brain-based.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-02-2013, 04:20 PM
RE: Non Biological Conciousness
(10-02-2013 03:35 PM)kim Wrote:  
(10-02-2013 03:00 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  No, it has not been "proven" that consciousness is an entirely biological function. Nor have spirits or souls have been disproved. Then again, Chupacabra, Bigfoot, the Yowie and countless others myths and Cryptids have yet to be disproved either.

Right on man, you had me at Yowie.


Uh... what the fuck is a Yowie? Unsure

Hehe. Yowie is a sort of Australian bigfoot.
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10-02-2013, 05:01 PM
RE: Non Biological Conciousness
(10-02-2013 02:43 PM)Egor Wrote:  Well, except for trainable paramecia, psi experiences, NDE's and the nonlocality of quantum mechanics, aside from all that irrefutable evidence for non-neurologic consciousness, yeah--then there's no evidence.

Oh, and the complete lunacy that neurons could allow the mind to function as it does--aside from that, there's no evidence.
Good one Mulder

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10-02-2013, 05:05 PM
RE: Non Biological Conciousness
(10-02-2013 04:20 PM)TheLastEnemy Wrote:  Hehe. Yowie is a sort of Australian bigfoot.
Consider


Consider

How big? Blink

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10-02-2013, 11:40 PM
RE: Non Biological Conciousness
(10-02-2013 03:35 PM)kim Wrote:  
(10-02-2013 03:00 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  No, it has not been "proven" that consciousness is an entirely biological function. Nor have spirits or souls have been disproved. Then again, Chupacabra, Bigfoot, the Yowie and countless others myths and Cryptids have yet to be disproved either.

Right on man, you had me at Yowie.


Uh... what the fuck is a Yowie? Unsure
[Image: 450px-Yowie-statue-Kilcoy-Queensland.JPG]
A statue of a Yowie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yowie


Essentially it's an aboriginal mythological creature, otherwise known as a Cryptid, like Bigfoot et al.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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11-02-2013, 04:57 PM
 
RE: Non Biological Conciousness
(10-02-2013 03:00 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  A person will be changed entirely if sufficient damage is done to the brain, doesn't seem much like the work of some intangible spook, does it?

I'm sorry, a what?


Quote:We can be reasonably assured however that:

Consciousness (the mind) is the by-product of a sufficiently complex neurological network, fuelled by electro-chemical energy used to release chemicals (commonly known as neurotransmitters) to pass information and instruction to nerves elsewhere in the body, which responds to external stimuli, which is interpreted into understandable and recognisable patterns.

For short: consciousness is proof of the brain it rests in, and is dependant on the continued, undamaged existence of the brain for it's existence.

My response to this is in my forum. Wink
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11-02-2013, 05:19 PM
RE: Non Biological Conciousness
(11-02-2013 04:57 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(10-02-2013 03:00 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  A person will be changed entirely if sufficient damage is done to the brain, doesn't seem much like the work of some intangible spook, does it?

I'm sorry, a what?


Quote:We can be reasonably assured however that:

Consciousness (the mind) is the by-product of a sufficiently complex neurological network, fuelled by electro-chemical energy used to release chemicals (commonly known as neurotransmitters) to pass information and instruction to nerves elsewhere in the body, which responds to external stimuli, which is interpreted into understandable and recognisable patterns.

For short: consciousness is proof of the brain it rests in, and is dependant on the continued, undamaged existence of the brain for it's existence.

My response to this is in my forum. Wink

Your response is a classic, trite argument from ignorance.

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11-02-2013, 06:11 PM
RE: Non Biological Conciousness
(10-02-2013 01:32 PM)TheLastEnemy Wrote:  Has it been irrefutably proven that consciousness is entirely a biological function, with no soul or spirit to speak of?, if so, how can any afterlife believing theist continue to defend their faith, when this would destroy the idea of a spirit, and therefore an afterlife, and therefore said faith completely?
Consciousness is, by definition, a product of the mind or a person. It's like asking "has anyone proven that you can't make a cheeseburger without cheese?" Even if we could find an emulation of consciousness, such as a computer that appears to be questioning its own existence, we wouldn't call it consciousness but rather say that it was mimicking consciousness.

And even if you could prove that non-biological entities had consciousness, that wouldn't "destroy the idea of a spirit", but rather just refute one of the arguments for God. Beware the argument from fallacy.

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11-02-2013, 06:14 PM
RE: Non Biological Conciousness
For someone who claims to work in psychiatry Egor doesn't really know much about psychiatry. Or he should try to read up on the last 20 years in computational neuroscience which does explain many of his "problems".

But that just made my day:
Quote:And then there is another fact: Most people have had psi experiences at one time in their life. I have posted mine many times. Psi has been demonstrated to be a real experience.
If you'd replace "psi" with "psychotic" it would be in line with scientific findings.
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11-02-2013, 06:20 PM
RE: Non Biological Conciousness
(11-02-2013 06:11 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  Consciousness is, by definition, a product of the mind or a person. It's like asking "has anyone proven that you can't make a cheeseburger without cheese?" Even if we could find an emulation of consciousness, such as a computer that appears to be questioning its own existence, we wouldn't call it consciousness but rather say that it was mimicking consciousness.
Consciousness is, IMO, not a product but a capability of a mind. I would call a machine conscious if it could monitor its own internal state of mind and make decisions based on that state.
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