Non-Existence Of God Is Pretentious?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
10-12-2013, 03:32 PM
RE: Non-Existence Of God Is Pretentious?
(10-12-2013 03:23 PM)Cephalotus Wrote:  Some of this is tl;dr so I'll just answer the op according to how I personally feel about monotheism. Tongue

The EXISTENCE of God, the creator, is the single most pretentious concept in all of human history. It assumes that there is a single, all-knowing creator (....who happens to have petty human emotions like jealousy--not sure how that pans out....) anyway, people who follow and believe in this creator get insider information into achieving a kick-ass after life.

So this means that everyone who has *ever existed* who followed a different religion or lacked a religion will suffer....for all eternity. YOU are special because you followed the correct deity out of a possible thousands.

This scenario is textbook pretension. Text. Book.
Don't forget about all those people who died before the good word was even published yetTongue Not to mention formal languages, writing systems, tool making, farming (funny that, Adam went straight to farming after the fall) you know..all those things that really mattered for a civilization to progress.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like grizzlysnake's post
10-12-2013, 03:46 PM
RE: Non-Existence Of God Is Pretentious?
(10-12-2013 03:29 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 03:14 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  First of all - if you post here it better be reasonable. If not it is your business and it needs to go elsewhere.
What intellegent beings do you speak of? Humans make some things better than nature, and nature makes many things better than humans - what is the point?!
The point that it is reasonable to me to believe that God did great job by taking a rock(planet where life is not possible) and turn it to a beautiful planet that we have now.
It is more reasonable for me to believe that there are more chances that oasis with roses and gardens can appear in the middle of the desert because of the involvement of intelligent beings than there is a chance that nature would do it on its own.

As far as I am aware, roses don't typically occur in deserts, oasis or not, let alone gardens which are pretty much by definition an area of flora planted (and even sometimes organised) be man.

The amino acids that gave rise to RNA/DNA and thus primitive cells and eventually the photo and chemosynthetic bacteria which slowly converted Earth into something habitable by what we know as life however do seem to occur naturally, without the invocation of magic.

It does seem to me that there is a disconnect in your analogy.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-12-2013, 06:17 PM (This post was last modified: 10-12-2013 06:28 PM by Alla.)
RE: Non-Existence Of God Is Pretentious?
(10-12-2013 03:46 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  As far as I am aware, roses don't typically occur in deserts, oasis or not, let alone gardens which are pretty much by definition an area of flora planted (and even sometimes organised) be man.
The amino acids that gave rise to RNA/DNA and thus primitive cells and eventually the photo and chemosynthetic bacteria which slowly converted Earth into something habitable by what we know as life however do seem to occur naturally, without the invocation of magic.
It does seem to me that there is a disconnect in your analogy.

How do you know that in the beginning this natural process happened on Earth without involvement of intelligent being? You could be right but how do you know that?
P.S. What happens in the lab naturally happens because intelligent beings are getting involved, doesn't it?

P.P.S. If I was from tribe mumbo-yumbo and had no idea that it is possible to have oasis in the middle of the desert but then I would saw oasis in the meddle of the desert I would believe that Gods(intelligent beings) did it. And I would be right.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-12-2013, 08:14 PM
RE: Non-Existence Of God Is Pretentious?
(10-12-2013 06:17 PM)Alla Wrote:  How do you know that in the beginning this natural process happened on Earth without involvement of intelligent being? You could be right but how do you know that?

I know you weren't asking me, but I'll chime in. I don't. However, I don't see any evidence for intelligent design (or more specifically, for the existence of a creator), so I don't see any reason to assume that it's the case.


(10-12-2013 06:17 PM)Alla Wrote:  P.S. What happens in the lab naturally happens because intelligent beings are getting involved, doesn't it?

Just because people do something in a lab doesn't mean that it can't happen in nature as well. They ran the experiment in a lab to be able to set up the conditions to study them for two reasons:

1) Conditions aren't currently like that anymore, and

2) You want to be able to control external variables. If other things change, it's impossible to attribute the results to any one of them. Scientific method 101.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes RobbyPants's post
10-12-2013, 08:33 PM
RE: Non-Existence Of God Is Pretentious?
This is what I hear.
Can't explain this so it's magic
Hear all this other stuff that explains such things as not magic but it still could be magic.
Thus magic made everything with magic. Yup.
There are things we don't know and that is fine. Resorting to magic is defeatism at its core.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes grizzlysnake's post
11-12-2013, 12:30 AM
RE: Non-Existence Of God Is Pretentious?
(10-12-2013 02:59 PM)Alla Wrote:  I speak only for myself.

You got THAT right, brother.

Quote: If it is not reasonable to you it is not my business.


It's not reasonable to ANYONE with more than a few brain cells.

Quote:I know that intelligent beings can do something better then nature would do.
nature can not create beautiful oasis with roses and gardens in the middle of the desert the way intelligent beings can do it.


Guess you've never seen a natural oasis in the desert.



Quote:Prophets of God

You mean, iron-age goatfuckers without a shred of education.


Quote:...testify that God is intelligent Being Who interacts with nature and makes something better than nature would do.
Who gives a shit what fairy-tale nonsense iron-age goatfuckers pulled out of their ass.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-12-2013, 02:06 AM (This post was last modified: 11-12-2013 02:10 AM by Free Thought.)
RE: Non-Existence Of God Is Pretentious?
(10-12-2013 06:17 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 03:46 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  As far as I am aware, roses don't typically occur in deserts, oasis or not, let alone gardens which are pretty much by definition an area of flora planted (and even sometimes organised) be man.
The amino acids that gave rise to RNA/DNA and thus primitive cells and eventually the photo and chemosynthetic bacteria which slowly converted Earth into something habitable by what we know as life however do seem to occur naturally, without the invocation of magic.
It does seem to me that there is a disconnect in your analogy.

How do you know that in the beginning this natural process happened on Earth without involvement of intelligent being? You could be right but how do you know that?

I don't know that and it would be disingenuous if I claimed otherwise as I would have to claim knowledge I do not have. This applies to you as well.
As it has not been demonstrated, and likely never will, I don't deny the possibility of a deity or an intelligence outright, but I leave it out of the evaluation as it is an unnecessary component to the equation and it itself requires non-existent explanation. You are familiar with Occam's Razor, are you not?
Default: scepticism.


(10-12-2013 06:17 PM)Alla Wrote:  P.S. What happens in the lab naturally happens because intelligent beings are getting involved, doesn't it?

Well, for one, we can know for certain that scientists, such as Stanley Urey and Harold Miller actually existed and have a wealth of evidence...

One thing you didn't seem to get in your science class through highschool is that experimental conditions are set up by scientists in order to test hypothesises. In several experiments, the Urey-Miller Experiment being one of them, have shown that in the conditions scientists believe to be of early earth, amino acids can form naturally. The key part is to remember that only the environment was set up: the amino acids and organic molecules formed by themselves; back when Earth was a big hunk of unstable volcanic activity, covered in reactive elements, they could have easily formed on their own.

Either your god is the laws of chemistry, isn't much of a god, did not have living things in it's mind when it built Earth, doesn't exist or has a really sick sense of humour.

(10-12-2013 06:17 PM)Alla Wrote:  P.P.S. If I was from tribe mumbo-yumbo and had no idea that it is possible to have oasis in the middle of the desert but then I would saw oasis in the meddle of the desert I would believe that Gods(intelligent beings) did it. And I would be right.

[Image: wikipedian_protester.png]

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-12-2013, 07:24 AM
RE: Non-Existence Of God Is Pretentious?
(09-12-2013 07:47 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 07:04 PM)grizzlysnake Wrote:  Thats nice for a sci-fi novel but right now were just gonna wait until if/when there is evidence for it.Drinking Beverage
sure.
But it is reasonable to believe biblical Prophets and other God's Prophets that intelligent Being God used this Earth to make it a place that is good enough for living of intelligent beings.
I believe Prophets of God that it is true.

No, it is not reasonable. There is no evidence that any of that is true, so it is not reasonable to believe it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Chas's post
11-12-2013, 09:01 AM
RE: Non-Existence Of God Is Pretentious?
All this talk of a beautiful oasis that springs forth in a desert or roses, or any example of beauty and wonder for that matter is all well and good mate. I can see why the uneducated and/or indoctrinated would propose them as an argument for creation and wonder. ... But, what was the 'creator' thinking when he put parasites that bore through children's eyes in Africa or creating cancerand HIV? Was that jjust an off day? Also, if our planet is such an optimum design to support life, how is it that 99% of all species that have existed are extinct? What about the parts of the world that are uninhabitable? ... Have you ever read a book Alla? Other than your religious fairytales? When is the last time you went to a museum? ... and as I seem to ask all of the preachy theists on here. What do you want? Are you here to convert us? Troll us? Or do you doubt your own beliefs?

A man blames his bad childhood on leprechauns. He claims they don't exist, but yet still says without a doubt that they stole all his money and then killed his parents. That's why he became Leprechaun-Man

Im_Ryan forum member
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
11-12-2013, 12:37 PM
RE: Non-Existence Of God Is Pretentious?
(10-12-2013 08:14 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 06:17 PM)Alla Wrote:  How do you know that in the beginning this natural process happened on Earth without involvement of intelligent being? You could be right but how do you know that?
I know you weren't asking me, but I'll chime in. I don't.
I know that nobody knows this. I also know that atheists do not claim to know.
(10-12-2013 08:14 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  However, I don't see any evidence for intelligent design (or more specifically, for the existence of a creator), so I don't see any reason to assume that it's the case.
OK. Could you explain to me please what kind of creator are you talking about?

(10-12-2013 08:14 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(10-12-2013 06:17 PM)Alla Wrote:  P.S. What happens in the lab naturally happens because intelligent beings are getting involved, doesn't it?
Just because people do something in a lab doesn't mean that it can't happen in nature as well. They ran the experiment in a lab to be able to set up the conditions to study them for two reasons:
I totally agree with you. But this is what I would like to say:
we have evidence that something
1)happens naturally without involvement of intelligent being(creator)
2)happens naturally with involvement of intelligent beings(in the lab)
Based on those two facts I may assume two things:
1)God/Creator/intelligent Being was involved in creation/organizing this planet and our heaves
2)no intelligent being/creator was involved.
I can say that Gods/intelligent Beings get involve in nature, create conditions that natural processes can happen(like in a lab) and not just life but life of INTELLIGENT BEINGS is possible in different places of the universe.

English is not my native language.
that awkward moment between the Premortal Existence and your Resurrection
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: