Non-fundamentalist apologetics is about obfuscation
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
08-05-2015, 08:57 AM
Non-fundamentalist apologetics is about obfuscation
Fundamentalism aside, I've noticed when talking to other Christians that most of their apologetics is about trying to make God increasingly vague and undefined to shield him from scrutiny. It tends to involve less pseudoscience and more poorly defined terms.

This is good from the theistic point of view because it helps stave off cognitive dissonance. It isn't about proving their belief right, but rather about retaining faith by making it so it can't be proven wrong. I used to be pretty good at this when I was in college. A lot of what I believed was done specifically to reconcile observable reality with my ever-changing belief system.

Of course, it also ended up being what made me ultimately reject my faith. I was in a period of time when I was trying to get it to "make sense", and one day I had this thought "why am I so focused on believing in a religion that I am making up as I go along?". That was the first time I actually felt some comfort in letting go.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like RobbyPants's post
08-05-2015, 09:01 AM
RE: Non-fundamentalist apologetics is about obfuscation
Sort of like 42.

It's easy to give an answer - and be "correct" - when you don't really know what the question is.......................

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes onlinebiker's post
08-05-2015, 09:15 AM
RE: Non-fundamentalist apologetics is about obfuscation
Why didn't you choose more logical religion?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-05-2015, 09:15 AM
RE: Non-fundamentalist apologetics is about obfuscation
(08-05-2015 08:57 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Fundamentalism aside, I've noticed when talking to other Christians that most of their apologetics is about trying to make God increasingly vague and undefined to shield him from scrutiny. It tends to involve less pseudoscience and more poorly defined terms.

This is good from the theistic point of view because it helps stave off cognitive dissonance. It isn't about proving their belief right, but rather about retaining faith by making it so it can't be proven wrong. I used to be pretty good at this when I was in college. A lot of what I believed was done specifically to reconcile observable reality with my ever-changing belief system.

Of course, it also ended up being what made me ultimately reject my faith. I was in a period of time when I was trying to get it to "make sense", and one day I had this thought "why am I so focused on believing in a religion that I am making up as I go along?". That was the first time I actually felt some comfort in letting go.

What I find ironic is that the same christians who shun science--are very quick to scour through the Bible to *try* and find passages that support modern science and support God. Yet, they have no problems throwing out anything scientific that they can't twist to fit into Bible passages. Ray Comfort's "Science" facts book springs to mind. I know not all christians are like this--some believe in evolution etc.--but there are some christians who take the Bible as a literal entity and that is scary.

I had a similar experience. I kept trying to make sense of the Bible. One day I just thought--if this was real--why do i have to work so hard to make everything fit? Wouldn't everything make sense if this book was written (through scribes) by an all powerful being? When I asked my pastor, he said God doesn't just make having faith in him easy--he wants you to work for it. I just remember thinking--So I have to work to believe something that is so obscure and bizarre and if i don't God will torture me for eternity. Seems fair Yes
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like jennybee's post
08-05-2015, 09:22 AM
RE: Non-fundamentalist apologetics is about obfuscation
(08-05-2015 09:15 AM)dimaniac Wrote:  Why didn't you choose more logical religion?

"Logical religion"????


THat's like

Chaste whore...

or

Brilliant moron....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like onlinebiker's post
08-05-2015, 09:25 AM
RE: Non-fundamentalist apologetics is about obfuscation
(08-05-2015 09:22 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  "Logical religion"????


THat's like

Chaste whore...

or

Brilliant moron....
or less illogical/with fewer contradictions
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-05-2015, 09:34 AM
RE: Non-fundamentalist apologetics is about obfuscation
(08-05-2015 09:15 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(08-05-2015 08:57 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Fundamentalism aside, I've noticed when talking to other Christians that most of their apologetics is about trying to make God increasingly vague and undefined to shield him from scrutiny. It tends to involve less pseudoscience and more poorly defined terms.

This is good from the theistic point of view because it helps stave off cognitive dissonance. It isn't about proving their belief right, but rather about retaining faith by making it so it can't be proven wrong. I used to be pretty good at this when I was in college. A lot of what I believed was done specifically to reconcile observable reality with my ever-changing belief system.

Of course, it also ended up being what made me ultimately reject my faith. I was in a period of time when I was trying to get it to "make sense", and one day I had this thought "why am I so focused on believing in a religion that I am making up as I go along?". That was the first time I actually felt some comfort in letting go.

What I find ironic is that the same christians who shun science--are very quick to scour through the Bible to *try* and find passages that support modern science and support God. Yet, they have no problems throwing out anything scientific that they can't twist to fit into Bible passages. Ray Comfort's "Science" facts book springs to mind. I know not all christians are like this--some believe in evolution etc.--but there are some christians who take the Bible as a literal entity and that is scary.

It's no wonder that faith want to be validated by science, nor is it strange that believers look for some "proof" that their favorite book is right. Faith while not built on logic craves the cold touch of science (or something considered so by believers), of something that can show that is not built only on indoctrination. That's why miracles come into the scene, these serve as "proof". Fact that such "proofs" are not something that can convince non believers is kinda hard to grasp for theists.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-05-2015, 09:37 AM
RE: Non-fundamentalist apologetics is about obfuscation
Yup, it's an exercise in moving the goal posts, not actually attempting to kick a field goal.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-05-2015, 10:14 AM
RE: Non-fundamentalist apologetics is about obfuscation
(08-05-2015 09:15 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I had a similar experience. I kept trying to make sense of the Bible. One day I just thought--if this was real--why do i have to work so hard to make everything fit?

This x100. I had that thought, too, along with "If God is real, why do people even question it?".

There are people who believe you need to be fluent in ancient Hebrew and Greek and have a PhD in history and anthropology to understand the Bible, and that it contains deep, universal truths. Why would Almighty God make this vital truth so opaque and inaccessible? Maybe that figure of only 144,000 getting to heaven is accurate... Dodgy


(08-05-2015 09:22 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(08-05-2015 09:15 AM)dimaniac Wrote:  Why didn't you choose more logical religion?

"Logical religion"????

There's a reason I have Shitstain on ignore. The chance of him posting anything worth reading is less than me getting hit by a plane that falls out of the sky.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like RobbyPants's post
08-05-2015, 10:40 AM
RE: Non-fundamentalist apologetics is about obfuscation
(08-05-2015 10:14 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(08-05-2015 09:15 AM)jennybee Wrote:  I had a similar experience. I kept trying to make sense of the Bible. One day I just thought--if this was real--why do i have to work so hard to make everything fit?

This x100. I had that thought, too, along with "If God is real, why do people even question it?".

There are people who believe you need to be fluent in ancient Hebrew and Greek and have a PhD in history and anthropology to understand the Bible, and that it contains deep, universal truths. Why would Almighty God make this vital truth so opaque and inaccessible? Maybe that figure of only 144,000 getting to heaven is accurate... Dodgy


(08-05-2015 09:22 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  "Logical religion"????

There's a reason I have Shitstain on ignore. The chance of him posting anything worth reading is less than me getting hit by a plane that falls out of the sky.

After reading the Bible several times over--I agree you need a PhD in history, anthropology, literature, archaeology, and linguistics to even attempt to make sense of anything in there. It is supposed to be accessible to any person. Anyone should be able to pick it up and get what God is trying to convey. If an all powerful being did write the book (through scribes), then you would expect that it would be understandable to all cultures/languages/times/places/people etc.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes jennybee's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: