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16-11-2012, 07:24 AM
RE: Noob Question
Once upon a time there was Jewish rebel who received the death penalty for crimes against the state.

If this had not have happened we would not now give each other chocolate eggs around March/April every year.

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16-11-2012, 07:27 AM
RE: Noob Question
(16-11-2012 07:24 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Once upon a time there was Jewish rebel who received the death penalty for crimes against the state.

If this had not have happened we would not now give each other chocolate eggs around March/April every year.
Never underestimate the pervasive influence of pagan festivals, especially the Vernal Equinox. Tongue

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17-11-2012, 10:17 PM (This post was last modified: 17-11-2012 10:23 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Noob Question
What Bucky said.

Paul ( not Jesus or his original followers) invented the concept of a "new covenant." He was trying to reinvent the basic tenets of Judaism, so he labelled them "old" and his novel, imaginary ideas "new." How he did it is as follows (apologies to anyone who's read this before)...

Paul the Salesman


Paul was a salesman with an ambitious agenda. He hoped to expand his interpretation of Judaism into the gentile world. He had a cunning plan to undermine all those dangerous Nazarene beliefs that incited rebellion against Roman rule.


He wrote to various groups scattered throughout the Empire, and desperately insisted they all believe only his theology. In Romans 15:16, he wrote that he thought of Gentiles as an offering he would bring to God. He was so obsessed with snaring converts that little else in his life mattered. Most of the people he wrote to were Gentiles (pagans) who were
associated with Jewish synagogues, (“God-fearing Gentiles”), although he did write to Jews too. From Paul’s perspective, his patrons were in desperate need of direction and an authoritative, charismatic leader to look up to. He
considered himself just the man. He knew how to win the hearts, minds, and souls of people because he imagined himself as one of the few god fearers who understood Gentile cultures.


Paul’s theology probably had a long and carefully thought out gestation. He was a salesman who knew his customers. He needed a good product, something very different to traditional Judaism, which he knew required obedience to cumbersome dictates. The Jews believed one had to be circumcised, a painful and embarrassing procedure, not easy to sell to an adult man. They believed in a xenophobic Yahweh, a rather thunderous and violent pro-Jewish
anti-gentile God. They could only eat kosher food, marry someone Jewish, and had to stop all work on the Sabbath. Jewish heritage and history were regarded as superior to all others, and people were expected to take part in the fasts
and feasts celebrating the ancient epic of Israel. They Jews believed they were destined to one day be the masters of the world. Paul knew that gentiles found all this inconvenient, irksome and out of touch with reality, so he labeled
these Jewish rules and beliefs as a type of slavery. He knew he had to jettison them, so he did.


All of a sudden, according to Paul, there was no need for circumcision or to stop work on the Sabbath or to obey the dietary kosher rules. He downplayed the importance of the Jewish Temple. He replaced the idea of a political messiah of Israel with Christ, the savior of all humankind. The “kingdom of God” became a place in heaven, not in Israel. He
claimed Yahweh was such a decent deity he had sent his own precious son, the Christ, to earth. He affirmed gentiles could be considered descendants of Abraham too, and that the centuries-old Jewish Law was a “curse.” All that was now required was faith in his story about Christ. Voilà! The Christ myth and Christian theology were born.


Paul was one of history’s first examples of an ambitious cult leader who, when the rules of the established religion were no longer convenient, simply invented new ones to suit himself. The so-called “old covenant” of the Jews was replaced by Paul’s entirely fabricated “new covenant.” He was trying to reinvent Judaism and dampen down Jewish messianic
dreams. He was doing his best to dilute Judaism with Gentiles and Gentile ideas.


To help realize this remodeling of belief, he undermined Yeshua’s family and disciples behind their backs. He was surprised and angry to find himself competing with them for people’s allegiance. They were treading on his turf. How dare they preach old-fashioned Jewish theology and disrupt his mission to set up communities of believers! Those annoying war mongering Jewish pillars were full of subversive fantasies about a character called Yeshua, but God had revealed to him the real Christ, the up-to-date modern Christ! He, not them, taught the “good news.” He knew what the newly flexible, expansionist, less violent, less Judaic God expected in these modern, pro-Roman times. He was an educated, savvy, Greek-speaking sophisticate who knew a stack more about selling a suitable religion to the subjects of the Empire than the anti-Roman bumpkins from the backwater of Galilee!
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18-11-2012, 08:56 AM
RE: Noob Question
(17-11-2012 10:17 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  What Bucky said.

Paul ( not Jesus or his original followers) invented the concept of a "new covenant." He was trying to reinvent the basic tenets of Judaism, so he labelled them "old" and his novel, imaginary ideas "new." How he did it is as follows (apologies to anyone who's read this before)...

Paul the Salesman


Paul was a salesman with an ambitious agenda. He hoped to expand his interpretation of Judaism into the gentile world. He had a cunning plan to undermine all those dangerous Nazarene beliefs that incited rebellion against Roman rule.


He wrote to various groups scattered throughout the Empire, and desperately insisted they all believe only his theology. In Romans 15:16, he wrote that he thought of Gentiles as an offering he would bring to God. He was so obsessed with snaring converts that little else in his life mattered. Most of the people he wrote to were Gentiles (pagans) who were
associated with Jewish synagogues, (“God-fearing Gentiles”), although he did write to Jews too. From Paul’s perspective, his patrons were in desperate need of direction and an authoritative, charismatic leader to look up to. He
considered himself just the man. He knew how to win the hearts, minds, and souls of people because he imagined himself as one of the few god fearers who understood Gentile cultures.


Paul’s theology probably had a long and carefully thought out gestation. He was a salesman who knew his customers. He needed a good product, something very different to traditional Judaism, which he knew required obedience to cumbersome dictates. The Jews believed one had to be circumcised, a painful and embarrassing procedure, not easy to sell to an adult man. They believed in a xenophobic Yahweh, a rather thunderous and violent pro-Jewish
anti-gentile God. They could only eat kosher food, marry someone Jewish, and had to stop all work on the Sabbath. Jewish heritage and history were regarded as superior to all others, and people were expected to take part in the fasts
and feasts celebrating the ancient epic of Israel. They Jews believed they were destined to one day be the masters of the world. Paul knew that gentiles found all this inconvenient, irksome and out of touch with reality, so he labeled
these Jewish rules and beliefs as a type of slavery. He knew he had to jettison them, so he did.


All of a sudden, according to Paul, there was no need for circumcision or to stop work on the Sabbath or to obey the dietary kosher rules. He downplayed the importance of the Jewish Temple. He replaced the idea of a political messiah of Israel with Christ, the savior of all humankind. The “kingdom of God” became a place in heaven, not in Israel. He
claimed Yahweh was such a decent deity he had sent his own precious son, the Christ, to earth. He affirmed gentiles could be considered descendants of Abraham too, and that the centuries-old Jewish Law was a “curse.” All that was now required was faith in his story about Christ. Voilà! The Christ myth and Christian theology were born.


Paul was one of history’s first examples of an ambitious cult leader who, when the rules of the established religion were no longer convenient, simply invented new ones to suit himself. The so-called “old covenant” of the Jews was replaced by Paul’s entirely fabricated “new covenant.” He was trying to reinvent Judaism and dampen down Jewish messianic
dreams. He was doing his best to dilute Judaism with Gentiles and Gentile ideas.


To help realize this remodeling of belief, he undermined Yeshua’s family and disciples behind their backs. He was surprised and angry to find himself competing with them for people’s allegiance. They were treading on his turf. How dare they preach old-fashioned Jewish theology and disrupt his mission to set up communities of believers! Those annoying war mongering Jewish pillars were full of subversive fantasies about a character called Yeshua, but God had revealed to him the real Christ, the up-to-date modern Christ! He, not them, taught the “good news.” He knew what the newly flexible, expansionist, less violent, less Judaic God expected in these modern, pro-Roman times. He was an educated, savvy, Greek-speaking sophisticate who knew a stack more about selling a suitable religion to the subjects of the Empire than the anti-Roman bumpkins from the backwater of Galilee!
This is very clever. Did you write this yourself? I notice your apologies to "anyone who has read this before"...

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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19-11-2012, 01:13 PM
RE: Noob Question
If your friend is Catholic you might want to mention that Capital punishment is allowed (under strict circumstances).

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
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