North Africa Situation
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02-02-2011, 11:23 PM
North Africa Situation
So surely you've been following the revolts in North Africa recently, Egypt perhaps being the most important in relation to the States and Israel. I'm by no means a political analyst but I'm curious to see how the power voids get filled in after the governments are ousted.

Also, dressing up soldiers and cops as civilians and calling them "Mubarak Supporters" is a dirty move :\

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03-02-2011, 06:32 AM
RE: North Africa Situation
(02-02-2011 11:23 PM)Green Wrote:  Also, dressing up soldiers and cops as civilians and calling them "Mubarak Supporters" is a dirty move :\

CNN interviewed a handful of these so-called Mubarak supporters and a few said they were told to come by their boss and they did not want to lose their jobs.

I have seen all kinds of media reports trying to discredit the movement as being a small minority, as being the cause of the violence, etc. It's a shame, especially because western politicians and journalists who profess to believe in democracy should absolutely be on the side of the protesters, irrespective of how large or small a group they actually are.

Finally, all this has reminded me of a great line by President John F. Kennedy: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." It has not been violent yet (for the most part) but I can see it heading that way at some point soon. Hopefully, though, it will not.

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03-02-2011, 07:32 AM
RE: North Africa Situation
A lot of secret police try to steal cameras from journalists , just recently saw Anderson Cooper on CNN.
It's sad that it came to this.I honestly hope it doesn't get violent but Mubarak seems intent on staying in power no matter what and the streets are in chaos and teenagers are taking to the streets with pipes and guns to set up roadblocks and protect their neighborhood.
I just hope something good will come of this ...

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03-02-2011, 07:41 AM
RE: North Africa Situation
I think something good may already have come out of it. Assuming he's true to his word (which is not a lock), then Mubarak will be gone by year end and his son will not take over. Egypt will choose it's own leaders through an election. It hasn't happened yet, but it is looking positive.

Yemen has already put in place steps for elections as a result of this and the King of Jordan has fired his government and hopefully that leads to elections in Jordan too. It's not an overnight reform of the oppressive Mideastern dictatorships and monarchies but it is a real first step towards real reform. Hopefully it lasts. And, if change now does come, it will have come not from terrorism or violence but by ordinary people standing up to oppressive regimes.

There is a lot to be done but I think we've seen some real good here already. I wish all those people the best of luck and hope they are successful.

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03-02-2011, 10:32 AM
RE: North Africa Situation
I don't know...What I am worried about is the Muslim Brotherhood will take over the leadership and a new Islamic theocrasy will border with us and this is the end of the geopolitics we know in the meadeast.
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03-02-2011, 02:23 PM
RE: North Africa Situation
I would hope that they get their freedom without switching from one form of oppression to another. But history is not on their side.

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03-02-2011, 05:25 PM
RE: North Africa Situation
Why is this particular area being hit so hard ? Does it have something to do with the theocratic nature of these countries ? Or is it just plain corruption.
I'll admit , I'm not that well versed in economics or politics to make heads or tales of this.

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03-02-2011, 07:48 PM
RE: North Africa Situation
I'm no expert, I'm just a guy who reads, so take this as an opinion and nothing more:

I think this has been brewing for a long time. A lot of these mid east countries have been seeing more and more disgruntled people, mainly young people who are educated and unemployed, pushing for the right of self determination. I think the tipping points was, ironically, Wikileaks (I say ironic because heads of state the world over went out of their way to say nothing important was released). Wikileads revealed, beyond any doubt, what people in Tunisia long suspected: that their government was a bunch of crooks basically pillaging the country for their own gain. And, last month they exploded over it and took them out.

I think that was the catalyst for Egypt. People saw what happened there and decided it was finally time to stand up. If one illegitimate oppressive regime could be taken down through a populist movement, why not Mubarak? And, you see it spreading to other countries that have dictatorial or monarchical rule. We saw it in Iran last summer and then this week the King of Jordan fired his government and the head of Yemen said he's going to open the country up to elections.

The western democracies have long supported these thuggish regimes because they provided cheap oil and reasonable regional stability. We pretended the people of the Arab and Persian world were somehow "less than" because it not only suited our economic needs but made it easier to sell to the home country when we had civilian casualties in our various military excursions the past 40 or so years. So, we've good reason to be scared about what happens when these people do finally (hopefully) win the right of self determination. You reap what you sew and we've sewn a lot of blood in that part of the world.

On the plus side, most of this has been done without a lot of violence. There has obviously been some (check out the reports on Tunisia) but for the most part these people are proving bin Ladin wrong. You don't need to be terrorists to oust a tyrant. I find that very encouraging. And, no matter what the short term ramifications are, I can't help but believe that the world is not better off in the long run with countries governed by a mandate from the people they rule and an accountability to them. That has to be better than what we have no in the middle east.

Anyway, my 2 cents. Take it for what it's worth.

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03-02-2011, 08:54 PM
RE: North Africa Situation
BnW pretty much summed it up nicely. The region has been made less and less stable as youth look out at what the rest of the world has, especially now that they're connected to the internet, and as they increase their education levels (more and more young folk going to university) they get less and less satisfied with their lot.

Add on the fact that food prices and basic necessities are increasing in price and a corrupt government that isn't representing what the people want and you brew up a nice civil unrest. After Tunisia began their protests several other nations in the region followed suit. A lot of the leaders are getting really uneasy, Gadaffi took pre-emptive measures and start working on food prices immediately after Tunisians started to rise up, for example.

Big mess at the moment, hopefully they don't end up in a situation where they swap one dictator for another. The Egyptians and Tunisians seem very adamant about having elections so there is hope there I think.

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04-02-2011, 12:23 AM
RE: North Africa Situation
(03-02-2011 06:32 AM)BnW Wrote:  CNN interviewed a handful of these so-called Mubarak supporters and a few said they were told to come by their boss and they did not want to lose their jobs.

I have seen all kinds of media reports trying to discredit the movement as being a small minority, as being the cause of the violence, etc. It's a shame, especially because western politicians and journalists who profess to believe in democracy should absolutely be on the side of the protesters, irrespective of how large or small a group they actually are.
From a media standpoint, it's a shame they take a side in it at all. The idea was supposed to have been impartial reporting, not swaying for one side or the other.

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