North America Pima Indian creation story
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25-02-2015, 07:28 PM
North America Pima Indian creation story
So I was cleaning up some old school files, and came across my Native American history stuff, and thought this would interest some of you...

The assignment was to compare your creation story with the pima indian creation story. Of course, I had great fun with that. First a link about the Pima Indians if you are curious..

http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/pi...thfind.htm

Here is the Pima creation story...

In the beginning there was no earth – no water, no sun, no light. There was only a man. A man left to drift through the darkness, which was darkness itself; Juhwertamahkai, Doctor of the Earth. He wandered through nowhere and nothing until he’d wandered enough. He rubbed on his breast until he had moahhahttack, perspiration, or greasy earth.This he held out on the palm of his hand, tipping over three times. On the fourth try it stayed still, hanging in the middle of the air. There it now remains as the world.

First he created the greasewood bush. Then he made ants, little tiny ants, to live on the bush. But the little ants did not do any good, so he created white ants which enlarged the earth, until at last it was big enough for he himself to rest on. Next came a person, forging him out of the shadow of his eye to assist him, to be like him and to help him in creating trees and human beings and everything that was to be on earth. He named this man Nooee (the Buzzard). Nooee was given all power, but did not like the work he was created for and did not care to help; so the Doctor of the Earth created it himself.

Next came water, placing it in a hollow vessel to harden into ice. He placed the hardened ball in the sky, first in the North, but it did not work; then he tried the West, but it did not work; next he tried the South, but it did not work; finally he placed it in the East, where it worked just as he wanted it to. He made the moon the same way, trying the same places with the same results. But when he made the stars he tried something different, and filling his mouth with water spit into the sky. But the stars did not shine bright enough. He took the Doctor-stone, the tonedumhawteh, and smashed it up. He collected the pieces and threw them into the sky to mix with the water. Finally, when all was settled he created the mountains and everything that has seed and is good to eat.

The first parents were perfect; there was no sickness and no death. But when the earth was full, and there was nothing left to eat, they killed and ate each other. Juhwertamahkai did not like what had become of his people and so he let the sky fall on them. When it dropped, he took a staff a broke a hole through. A hole through which he and Nooee escaped, leaving nothing but death behind them.

Seated upon the ruins of the world he had created, Juhwertamahkai created a second heaven and earth, but the people turned grey in old age and their children became grey until eventually the babies were grey in their cradles. He did not like his people becoming grey in their cradles, and so he let the sky fall on them as well. On top of his second, he crafted a third. But these people made a vice of smoking, until the infants wanted to smoke in their cradles. He let the sky fall on them as well and set about building another heaven and earth exactly as before. This time though, he decided to leave his creations to their own devices.

At first the slope of the world ran westward and had no true valleys to catch water for people to drink. Juhwertamahkai sent Nooee to fly among the mountains to cut valleys with his wings so water could be caught and distributed. Now, the sun was male and the moon was female and together they met once a month. The moon soon became a mother and went to the mountain of Tahsmyettahn Toeahk (sun striking mountain) to bear her child. Having to return to work, she made a place for the child to rest among trampled weeds and the child, having no milk, gained sustenance on the earth. This child was the coyote, and as he grew went out to walk, and in his walk came to the house of Juhwertamahkai and Nooee, where the Doctor of the Earth dubbed him “Toehahvs,” after the name of the weeds upon which he was laid.

Out of the North came another powerful figure named Eeeetoy (Creator/Doctor of the Earth) who was greeted by Juhwertamahkai and Nooee as their younger brother at which he insisted that he was the eldest among them. After much dispute, and because he felt so strongly they agreed to call him Seeurhuh, or elder brother.

https://againstamericangrain.wordpress.c...-creation/

RolleyesRolleyesRolleyes

and here was my posting

Assignment one

Some Native American groups depended on agriculture as the basis of their livelihood, and these groups lived in the Great Plains. Due to the higher amounts of precipitation in the western half of the plains, this area was more popular for raising crops. The primary crop of choice was Maize, commonly known as corn today. These groups included the Wichita, Pawnee, Arikara, Mandan, Hidatsa and Osage. Most trade routes ran North and South along geographical lines. Mountain ranges proved to be challenging geographical barriers for trade, while coastal areas and waterways provided ease of movement for trade goods. Being familiar with geography of their lands was essential to identifying the best place to establish their agricultural base, as well as trade routes to move goods using the natural topography of the land to their advantage.

In the film Last of the Mohicans, Chingachgook approaches the deer that they had just killed, while softly and reverently voicing a prayer of thanks to the spirit of the deer, apologizing for killing him, pointing out his respect of the deer’s strength, and promising to honor him. This is a prime example of how Native Americans viewed nature and all within it with a great deal of respect and honor.

As an Atheist, my “cultural story” is based in the real world, and is referred to as evolution. My “cultural story” is based in fact, is observable, testable, substantiated by physical evidence, fossil record, and the result of long study of all empirical evidence by science. As such, there is zero similarity in my “cultural story” and the Pima creation story. As a creation story, the Pima creation story is no more outlandish or ridiculous than any other creation story. I find them all equally outlandish and ridiculous, whether one chooses to believe an invisible deity blew into a handful of dirt and created man, or wiped dirty sweat off his chest to create the world as per the Pima story, they are all the creative philosophical embellishments of man.

---------------------------------

I got an "A+". Big Grin (remember this is Saint Leo University)

So what did you think about this creation story? As we have said many times, with so many religions, it is funny how each follower of a specific faith, dismisses other faiths as erroneous, and just "know" their faith is the one, the truth and the way Laugh out load

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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25-02-2015, 08:19 PM
RE: North America Pima Indian creation story
Really, is it any sillier than the bullshit in genesis?

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25-02-2015, 08:37 PM
RE: North America Pima Indian creation story
(25-02-2015 08:19 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Really, is it any sillier than the bullshit in genesis?

Nope Big Grin Which was my point on my paper, I find it no more ludicrous then the other made up BS Drooling

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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25-02-2015, 08:43 PM
RE: North America Pima Indian creation story
(25-02-2015 07:28 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  So I was cleaning up some old school files, and came across my Native American history stuff, and thought this would interest some of you...

The assignment was to compare your creation story with the pima indian creation story. Of course, I had great fun with that. First a link about the Pima Indians if you are curious..

http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/pi...thfind.htm

Here is the Pima creation story...

In the beginning there was no earth – no water, no sun, no light. There was only a man. A man left to drift through the darkness, which was darkness itself; Juhwertamahkai, Doctor of the Earth. He wandered through nowhere and nothing until he’d wandered enough. He rubbed on his breast until he had moahhahttack, perspiration, or greasy earth.This he held out on the palm of his hand, tipping over three times. On the fourth try it stayed still, hanging in the middle of the air. There it now remains as the world.

First he created the greasewood bush. Then he made ants, little tiny ants, to live on the bush. But the little ants did not do any good, so he created white ants which enlarged the earth, until at last it was big enough for he himself to rest on. Next came a person, forging him out of the shadow of his eye to assist him, to be like him and to help him in creating trees and human beings and everything that was to be on earth. He named this man Nooee (the Buzzard). Nooee was given all power, but did not like the work he was created for and did not care to help; so the Doctor of the Earth created it himself.

Next came water, placing it in a hollow vessel to harden into ice. He placed the hardened ball in the sky, first in the North, but it did not work; then he tried the West, but it did not work; next he tried the South, but it did not work; finally he placed it in the East, where it worked just as he wanted it to. He made the moon the same way, trying the same places with the same results. But when he made the stars he tried something different, and filling his mouth with water spit into the sky. But the stars did not shine bright enough. He took the Doctor-stone, the tonedumhawteh, and smashed it up. He collected the pieces and threw them into the sky to mix with the water. Finally, when all was settled he created the mountains and everything that has seed and is good to eat.

The first parents were perfect; there was no sickness and no death. But when the earth was full, and there was nothing left to eat, they killed and ate each other. Juhwertamahkai did not like what had become of his people and so he let the sky fall on them. When it dropped, he took a staff a broke a hole through. A hole through which he and Nooee escaped, leaving nothing but death behind them.

Seated upon the ruins of the world he had created, Juhwertamahkai created a second heaven and earth, but the people turned grey in old age and their children became grey until eventually the babies were grey in their cradles. He did not like his people becoming grey in their cradles, and so he let the sky fall on them as well. On top of his second, he crafted a third. But these people made a vice of smoking, until the infants wanted to smoke in their cradles. He let the sky fall on them as well and set about building another heaven and earth exactly as before. This time though, he decided to leave his creations to their own devices.

At first the slope of the world ran westward and had no true valleys to catch water for people to drink. Juhwertamahkai sent Nooee to fly among the mountains to cut valleys with his wings so water could be caught and distributed. Now, the sun was male and the moon was female and together they met once a month. The moon soon became a mother and went to the mountain of Tahsmyettahn Toeahk (sun striking mountain) to bear her child. Having to return to work, she made a place for the child to rest among trampled weeds and the child, having no milk, gained sustenance on the earth. This child was the coyote, and as he grew went out to walk, and in his walk came to the house of Juhwertamahkai and Nooee, where the Doctor of the Earth dubbed him “Toehahvs,” after the name of the weeds upon which he was laid.

Out of the North came another powerful figure named Eeeetoy (Creator/Doctor of the Earth) who was greeted by Juhwertamahkai and Nooee as their younger brother at which he insisted that he was the eldest among them. After much dispute, and because he felt so strongly they agreed to call him Seeurhuh, or elder brother.

https://againstamericangrain.wordpress.c...-creation/

RolleyesRolleyesRolleyes

and here was my posting

Assignment one

Some Native American groups depended on agriculture as the basis of their livelihood, and these groups lived in the Great Plains. Due to the higher amounts of precipitation in the western half of the plains, this area was more popular for raising crops. The primary crop of choice was Maize, commonly known as corn today. These groups included the Wichita, Pawnee, Arikara, Mandan, Hidatsa and Osage. Most trade routes ran North and South along geographical lines. Mountain ranges proved to be challenging geographical barriers for trade, while coastal areas and waterways provided ease of movement for trade goods. Being familiar with geography of their lands was essential to identifying the best place to establish their agricultural base, as well as trade routes to move goods using the natural topography of the land to their advantage.

In the film Last of the Mohicans, Chingachgook approaches the deer that they had just killed, while softly and reverently voicing a prayer of thanks to the spirit of the deer, apologizing for killing him, pointing out his respect of the deer’s strength, and promising to honor him. This is a prime example of how Native Americans viewed nature and all within it with a great deal of respect and honor.

As an Atheist, my “cultural story” is based in the real world, and is referred to as evolution. My “cultural story” is based in fact, is observable, testable, substantiated by physical evidence, fossil record, and the result of long study of all empirical evidence by science. As such, there is zero similarity in my “cultural story” and the Pima creation story. As a creation story, the Pima creation story is no more outlandish or ridiculous than any other creation story. I find them all equally outlandish and ridiculous, whether one chooses to believe an invisible deity blew into a handful of dirt and created man, or wiped dirty sweat off his chest to create the world as per the Pima story, they are all the creative philosophical embellishments of man.

---------------------------------

I got an "A+". Big Grin (remember this is Saint Leo University)

So what did you think about this creation story? As we have said many times, with so many religions, it is funny how each follower of a specific faith, dismisses other faiths as erroneous, and just "know" their faith is the one, the truth and the way Laugh out load

Lot's of similarities to so many other creation myths, this god created the world from darkness or chaos with his sweat, then he creates a man to help him.
This one is more believable at some level than the Genesis myth, Juhwertamahkai keeps trying and failing at creation, then wipes out everyone to try again.

Somehow Judaism desires to claim their god is perfect, but wipes out his creation because of his regret. At least this aspect of Juhwertamahkai is more believable.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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26-02-2015, 03:45 PM
RE: North America Pima Indian creation story
I always found this incredibly amusing. The Greco-Roman writer Celsus had a higher view of 'god' than the fucking xtians and jews.

Quote:"God does not inflict correction on the world as if he were some unskilled laborer who is incapable of building something properly the first time around; God has no need to purify what he has built by means of a flood or a conflagration (as they teach)."

Celsus c 180 "On the True Doctrine"

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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