North Korea Threatens Annihilation Of America On Anniversary Of Korean War Armistice
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29-07-2015, 06:30 AM
RE: North Korea Threatens Annihilation Of America On Anniversary Of Korean War Armistice
(28-07-2015 10:59 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Why did America lose Vietnam?

There is a big difference between Vietnam and North Korea.

The North Vietnamese were supported by both the Chinese and Soviets. If we had gone full out - and really cut off the NVA from their supply lines - we would have infuriated the Chinese and Soviets - and it was feared that that would bring them into the fray as active participants rather than simply as supporters.

North Korea has EVERYBODY pissed off. Kim won't get any help from either Russia or China -- in fact if he started a war with the south - it's very likely the Chinese would act like a steamroller and simply take over the country --- because they'd probably get sanction from all the other players to do so.

.......................................

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29-07-2015, 06:45 AM
RE: North Korea Threatens Annihilation Of America On Anniversary Of Korean War Armistice
... So if they've got no friends and their army's so shit, why aren't SK and their neighbours taking them out?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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29-07-2015, 06:49 AM
RE: North Korea Threatens Annihilation Of America On Anniversary Of Korean War Armistice
(29-07-2015 06:45 AM)morondog Wrote:  ... So if they've got no friends and their army's so shit, why aren't SK and their neighbours taking them out?

Same reason Germany doesn't invade France (again)....

.......................................

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29-07-2015, 07:08 AM
RE: North Korea Threatens Annihilation Of America On Anniversary Of Korean War Armistice
(29-07-2015 06:49 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(29-07-2015 06:45 AM)morondog Wrote:  ... So if they've got no friends and their army's so shit, why aren't SK and their neighbours taking them out?

Same reason Germany doesn't invade France (again)....

If only there weren't those pesky countries between them and Greece. Censored

It shifted here to a whole lot of Inter-Korean war fighting and that's something that NK can still threat. But any reports outside of their missile capabilities is still what makes it a laugh to think of the rhetoric used against America.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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29-07-2015, 07:54 AM (This post was last modified: 29-07-2015 04:06 PM by yakherder.)
RE: North Korea Threatens Annihilation Of America On Anniversary Of Korean War Armistice
I just skimmed over the past few pages, so if I repeat something that's already been mentioned, I apologize Tongue

Conventional warfare necessitates the destruction of at least some of the enemy's infrastructure, and no matter how careful, there is always going to be collateral damage to the civilian population. This is not conducive to South Korea's primary goal of reunification. But if it comes to it, they are prepared.

Also, the one threat North Korea does pose is it's medium range rocket and cruise missile capabilities. They could theoretically do significant damage to Seoul in a very short amount of time. South Korea is well aware of this, and has its vastly superior air force on 24 hour standby to immediately and decisively eliminate this threat, and could probably do so within a matter of hours. In that regards, North Korea does not present a threat to South Korea's war fighting capabilities, but they could still do damage to the capital and its civilian population. South Korea would rather it not come to this.

Others have touched on the fact that North Korea is unlikely to receive outside support. Another thing to consider is the difference between conventional and guerrilla or insurgent forces. Insurgent forces like Al Qaeda operate from the bottom up, as opposed to being dependent on a command structure to accomplish its goals. Take out insurgent leadership, and very little happens. They still have their supply routes and smaller groups still have their overall objectives. And for the record, neither the Taliban nor Al Qaeda have been operating purely on old equipment. The Taliban, especially, had a steady supply of modern hardware which it acquired primarily through its drug trade with Europe. Yeah, they use old equipment too, like the previously mentioned bolt action rifles that are, despite their age, reliable and accurate.But they also had a steady supply of new stuff to keep them fighting, and that supply did not depend on a central command structure to keep it coming. It just depended on a bunch of drug addicts from around the world that don't seem to give a shit where their money goes. Conventional forces, such as those operated by all governments including but not limited to North Korea's, operate from the top down, relying on commands to be passed from the leadership to the troops. Take out conventional leadership, and its forces at best stop fighting, and at worst fracture, in which case some might simply go home while others might form pockets of isolated resistance that can't be sustained.

When 40 countries from around the world invaded Iraq, it's conventional military was crushed in a matter of hours, and isolated pockets of resistance mopped up in the weeks that followed. It was the insurgent threat not in any way allied with or loyal to Iraq that then reared its head and signaled the start of the shit we're still dealing with.

North Korea lacks that insurgent threat. There aren't a bunch of Chinese fanatics waiting to come in and initiate guerrilla warfare. The North Korean soldiers, brainwashed or not, have no effective small group leadership. It may take a generation or more to get their minds back, but their warfighting ability is extremely limited. Though the war would likely be won quickly, of course it wouldn't be business as usual by Christmas. An extended, costly occupation and rebuilding would be necessary, and South Korea has nothing to gain from that if it can be avoided.

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29-07-2015, 09:54 AM (This post was last modified: 29-07-2015 09:59 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: North Korea Threatens Annihilation Of America On Anniversary Of Korean War Armistice
(29-07-2015 02:00 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  And you might wanna remove the pole from your ass and check your tone.

If you don't even know the facts about the equipment, you're not going to swing much credibility. Sorry that puts a bee in your bonnet. Also, lol @ "check your tone" following "remove the pole from your ass" ... pot, kettle, right, kid?

Listen, I may have a little snark from time to time, but I haven't written anything like the above to you. There's no reason to get butthurt about this; we disagree, and it doesn't have to be ugly.

(29-07-2015 02:00 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Factual accuracy was not the point. And besides, they were first designed in 1967 so shove it up your ass, if it can fit up there with the pole.

So what was its service date? That's right, 1981.

As for factual accuracy not being the point, I'd disagree. How can you make a meaningful point when you're not informed on the facts at hand?

(29-07-2015 02:00 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Yes and the NK army has been training for this since the end of the Korean War. It's the main purpose they have a huge army in the first place... They are very motivated, see Japan during WW2.

How do you come by this understanding of their motivation? And what makes you think that that DPRK are motivated as were the Japanese?

I'm thinking that serving the government that is starving my mother and incarcerating Gramps is only a gig to keep me out of a camp myself, especially once supplies thin out and food becomes scarce.

(29-07-2015 02:00 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:Nor did I.

"Brainwashing reduces initiative."

You have an argument with the sentiment, let's see it. The fact is that authority in their military is centralized so that the government can keep a tight control on the forces. What that means is that decision-making takes place at a higher level of authority than in most other armies of the world. What that means is that command and control systems are a weak point, and even if not destroyed, decisions take longer to make and enact. Time, on the battlefield, is paramount.

The only answer to that problem is to inculcate a standard doctrine and hope it fits the circumstances of battle.

History demonstrates that flexible armies are more often successful.

(29-07-2015 02:00 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  Ehhh this is 2015, I don't think that's as big an issue as it was in the past. Communication is a lot better now.

Communications are still vulnerable to cutting; and decisions taken by leaders not on the field of battle lack the advantage of immediacy. The man on the scene is in the best place to make the decision. Forcing him to refer to leadership not present, as his opponent still has the authority to decide for himself, is hampering his ability to fight.


(29-07-2015 02:00 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:You have numbers? Let's see 'em.

You can cram this up your tightly packed ass too.

From your link:

Wiki Wrote:The second phase occurred in April and May when numerous Nazi Party officials and senior military personnel committed suicide. Suicide levels reached their maximum in Berlin in April 1945 when 3,881 people killed themselves during the Battle of Berlin.

In a nation of 80 million, with five million men under arms, such numbers are trifling. Never mind the fact that most of those deaths were civilian and not military (go read Ryan's The Battle of Berlin for a little insight into the phenomenon.)

(29-07-2015 02:00 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:They died honorably.

No they didn't. Not at all. They died being flushed out of holes in the ground by flamethrowers or being sent on suicide missions in their fighter planes. There's no "honor" in that. Honorable is holding the door open for someone or some shit like that. Nothing honorable about war, not a damn thing. ESPECIALLY the Pacific War. On both sides.

I'm addressing their deaths in their own terms. I agree that that war was a particularly brutal war colored with race-hatred.

(29-07-2015 02:00 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:But they died, all the same.

And how long did that take? Not days or weeks or even months. It took nearly 4 years at the cost of millions of lives.
Millions.

And that is relevant to this discussion how? Does DPRK sit in an analagous situation? Of course not. This is a silly comparison. While I don't think it would be a matter of days or weeks, I don't think DPRK is nearly so formidable as you do, certainly not as daunting as Japan was.

(29-07-2015 02:00 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:You must not be paying attention. We're talking about RoK forces, not an American fight.

If NK attacked SK America would get involved.

Fair enough. So now DPRK has to defeat two enemies, not one. How does that help your point?

(29-07-2015 02:00 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:No war is easy. But the North Koreans don't have the capability to defeat the South Koreans. Full stop.

The issue is not about win or lose, my issue is that you think it will be such a walk in the park.
I never said we (the west) would lose. I said, quote, "I just don't buy this "it'll be over by Christmas bullshit", that you're spouting.

I don't think it will be a walk in the park, but I do think that there is no chance at all that DPRK could win such a war. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

(29-07-2015 02:00 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  You're ignorant and have too many things firmly lodged up your ass.

I bet you felt a swell of pride in composing that last little rejoinder. You'll have to forgive my apathy.
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29-07-2015, 05:04 PM
RE: North Korea Threatens Annihilation Of America On Anniversary Of Korean War Armistice
Quote:If you don't even know the facts about the equipment, you're not going to swing much credibility. Sorry that puts a bee in your bonnet. Also, lol @ "check your tone" following "remove the pole from your ass" ... pot, kettle, right, kid?

Listen, I may have a little snark from time to time, but I haven't written anything like the above to you. There's no reason to get butthurt about this; we disagree, and it doesn't have to be ugly.

The point was that they were using old equipment. I really really don't give a shit that stinger missiles were made in the 80's and not the 60's. It's completely pointless to the debate. To even bring it up shows how little you have in this debate that you have to nit-pick the absolute pointless. Go after my spelling next would ya, that'll really make your argument more legit... fucking retard.

Quote:How do you come by this understanding of their motivation? And what makes you think that that DPRK are motivated as were the Japanese?

I'm thinking that serving the government that is starving my mother and incarcerating Gramps is only a gig to keep me out of a camp myself, especially once supplies thin out and food becomes scarce.

You know nothing of brainwashed countries. Nazi germany, Japan during WW2, America today etc.. Fanatical patriotism is a disease. These people are brought up under extreme propaganda. They are raised by the state on state coolaide.

Quote:You have an argument with the sentiment, let's see it. The fact is that authority in their military is centralized so that the government can keep a tight control on the forces. What that means is that decision-making takes place at a higher level of authority than in most other armies of the world. What that means is that command and control systems are a weak point, and even if not destroyed, decisions take longer to make and enact. Time, on the battlefield, is paramount.

The only answer to that problem is to inculcate a standard doctrine and hope it fits the circumstances of battle.

History demonstrates that flexible armies are more often successful.

And a lame bear will still tear your head off.

Quote:In a nation of 80 million, with five million men under arms, such numbers are trifling. Never mind the fact that most of those deaths were civilian and not military

Right because who gives a shit if it's a civilian, the only lives that matter are armed forces...

I was being sarcastic by the way.

Quote:I'm addressing their deaths in their own terms.

They decided to put up a pointless brutal resistance even in the hindsight of certain defeat. This is my point about North Korea being fanatical.

Quote:And that is relevant to this discussion how?

It's the whole point you stupid shithead.
Your premise is that a war with NK would be quick and easy, mine is that it would be long and bloody. Jesus Christ you're dumb. Keep up would ya.

Quote:Fair enough. So now DPRK has to defeat two enemies, not one. How does that help your point?

How does it help yours? It doesn't.

Quote:I don't think it will be a walk in the park, but I do think that there is no chance at all that DPRK could win such a war. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

I never said they would win. Less pole cramming up your ass and more opening your ears.

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30-07-2015, 12:28 AM
RE: North Korea Threatens Annihilation Of America On Anniversary Of Korean War Armistice
Rolleyes Christ Muffs. You mighta made some points in there but what's gonna happen is Thumpy's a-gonna read that shit and a red mist is gonna descend in front of his eyes and he's gonna put on his ten-gallon hat and coil his lasso and catch him a bronco and break in the bronco and he's gonna load his six-shooter and by damn he's gonna ride the range with narrowed eyes and one of those curly moustaches...

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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30-07-2015, 04:01 AM
RE: North Korea Threatens Annihilation Of America On Anniversary Of Korean War Armistice
(30-07-2015 12:28 AM)morondog Wrote:  Rolleyes Christ Muffs. You mighta made some points in there but what's gonna happen is Thumpy's a-gonna read that shit and a red mist is gonna descend in front of his eyes and he's gonna put on his ten-gallon hat and coil his lasso and catch him a bronco and break in the bronco and he's gonna load his six-shooter and by damn he's gonna ride the range with narrowed eyes and one of those curly moustaches...

What? I thought it was rather tame.

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30-07-2015, 05:26 AM
RE: North Korea Threatens Annihilation Of America On Anniversary Of Korean War Armistice
Can I get a kim chi soup rice and side dishes? And some tea?
Kam sum nida.

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