North Korea says it successfully tested hydrogen bomb for long-range missile
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04-09-2017, 09:23 AM
RE: North Korea says it successfully tested hydrogen bomb for long-range missile
Personally, I am wondering why Kim Jong Un doesn't go back up into the unicorn lair he was born in and get some magical power help. I'd totally hail NK then. Seems simple to me, really.
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04-09-2017, 09:04 PM
RE: North Korea says it successfully tested hydrogen bomb for long-range missile
(04-09-2017 08:26 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Trumps attack on south Korea for appeasement shows just how colloquial he really is and how little he understands the situation, after all it wouldn't be him who would have to watch as hundreds of thousands of hostile troops poured over the DMZ with the intention of raping and plundering the country to death.

Just a contrarian thought here....I have this sneaking suspicion that Trump knows exactly what he is doing here. That's not to say what he is doing is wise--what I think he might be up to is quite high risk. I think this North Korea mess is nothing but a proxy "war" against China, the real target. Yes, the nuclear issue is a concern in and of its own right, which makes this the perfect conduit to attack China. Consider the following:

--Trump has always made confrontation with China a centerpiece of his populist economics appeal to his supporters.

--Trump has been able to use the NK issue to punish China economically, sanctioning Chinese banks who do business with Korea, initiating investigations into Chinese protectionism and intellectual property theft. This would be much harder to do without North Korea as cover.

--Trump has been able to convince Japan and South Korea to increase its own defense spending and improve it's military capabilities as a result of the Korean issue. Even dovish South Korean president has been forced to backpedal on opposition to THAD installations.

--Banon made clear in his interview that he "didn't know was on the record" that economic war with China was front and center of his advice to Trump. This is an important insight into Trump's thinking.

--Trump has been able to rally the west around the idea that North Korea is "China's fault". While Trump takes the hit of being blamed for ratcheting up pressure today, he successfully blames China for the long term policy of propping up North Korea and their nuclear ambitions.

--Trump's Afganistan speech had a loud and clear message for China--our pivot towards India.

--We might not think of Trump as a master strategist of any sort with one major exception--he most definitely is a master strategist in the use of chaos and playing sides against each other. That is precisely how he got the nomination and the presidency. And this is how he is managing the Korea issue--through chaos.


I am not praising Trump for this dangerous and high risk game I think he is playing--he risks us going to war for real by playing this way. But so long as war does not break out, I also think that the longer this goes on, the more strategic benefit it is to the US. The longer North Korea issue goes on, the more China feels the heat, and the more the US can boost military and economic pressure on China and get away with it. The US could never get away with the economic and military pressure we are putting on China without the Korea issue, and I have a feeling we are about to see more of the same after this nuclear test.
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05-09-2017, 01:40 AM
RE: North Korea says it successfully tested hydrogen bomb for long-range missile
(04-09-2017 09:04 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(04-09-2017 08:26 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Trumps attack on south Korea for appeasement shows just how colloquial he really is and how little he understands the situation, after all it wouldn't be him who would have to watch as hundreds of thousands of hostile troops poured over the DMZ with the intention of raping and plundering the country to death.

Just a contrarian thought here....I have this sneaking suspicion that Trump knows exactly what he is doing here. That's not to say what he is doing is wise--what I think he might be up to is quite high risk. I think this North Korea mess is nothing but a proxy "war" against China, the real target. Yes, the nuclear issue is a concern in and of its own right, which makes this the perfect conduit to attack China. Consider the following:

--Trump has always made confrontation with China a centerpiece of his populist economics appeal to his supporters.

--Trump has been able to use the NK issue to punish China economically, sanctioning Chinese banks who do business with Korea, initiating investigations into Chinese protectionism and intellectual property theft. This would be much harder to do without North Korea as cover.

--Trump has been able to convince Japan and South Korea to increase its own defense spending and improve it's military capabilities as a result of the Korean issue. Even dovish South Korean president has been forced to backpedal on opposition to THAD installations.

--Banon made clear in his interview that he "didn't know was on the record" that economic war with China was front and center of his advice to Trump. This is an important insight into Trump's thinking.

--Trump has been able to rally the west around the idea that North Korea is "China's fault". While Trump takes the hit of being blamed for ratcheting up pressure today, he successfully blames China for the long term policy of propping up North Korea and their nuclear ambitions.

--Trump's Afganistan speech had a loud and clear message for China--our pivot towards India.

--We might not think of Trump as a master strategist of any sort with one major exception--he most definitely is a master strategist in the use of chaos and playing sides against each other. That is precisely how he got the nomination and the presidency. And this is how he is managing the Korea issue--through chaos.


I am not praising Trump for this dangerous and high risk game I think he is playing--he risks us going to war for real by playing this way. But so long as war does not break out, I also think that the longer this goes on, the more strategic benefit it is to the US. The longer North Korea issue goes on, the more China feels the heat, and the more the US can boost military and economic pressure on China and get away with it. The US could never get away with the economic and military pressure we are putting on China without the Korea issue, and I have a feeling we are about to see more of the same after this nuclear test.

An excellent post Bryan well thought out and entirely plausible, also an interesting different perspective. Yes
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05-09-2017, 05:45 PM
RE: North Korea says it successfully tested hydrogen bomb for long-range missile
(04-09-2017 09:04 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(04-09-2017 08:26 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Trumps attack on south Korea for appeasement shows just how colloquial he really is and how little he understands the situation, after all it wouldn't be him who would have to watch as hundreds of thousands of hostile troops poured over the DMZ with the intention of raping and plundering the country to death.

Just a contrarian thought here....I have this sneaking suspicion that Trump knows exactly what he is doing here. That's not to say what he is doing is wise--what I think he might be up to is quite high risk. I think this North Korea mess is nothing but a proxy "war" against China, the real target. Yes, the nuclear issue is a concern in and of its own right, which makes this the perfect conduit to attack China. Consider the following:

--Trump has always made confrontation with China a centerpiece of his populist economics appeal to his supporters.

--Trump has been able to use the NK issue to punish China economically, sanctioning Chinese banks who do business with Korea, initiating investigations into Chinese protectionism and intellectual property theft. This would be much harder to do without North Korea as cover.

--Trump has been able to convince Japan and South Korea to increase its own defense spending and improve it's military capabilities as a result of the Korean issue. Even dovish South Korean president has been forced to backpedal on opposition to THAD installations.

--Banon made clear in his interview that he "didn't know was on the record" that economic war with China was front and center of his advice to Trump. This is an important insight into Trump's thinking.

--Trump has been able to rally the west around the idea that North Korea is "China's fault". While Trump takes the hit of being blamed for ratcheting up pressure today, he successfully blames China for the long term policy of propping up North Korea and their nuclear ambitions.

--Trump's Afganistan speech had a loud and clear message for China--our pivot towards India.

--We might not think of Trump as a master strategist of any sort with one major exception--he most definitely is a master strategist in the use of chaos and playing sides against each other. That is precisely how he got the nomination and the presidency. And this is how he is managing the Korea issue--through chaos.


I am not praising Trump for this dangerous and high risk game I think he is playing--he risks us going to war for real by playing this way. But so long as war does not break out, I also think that the longer this goes on, the more strategic benefit it is to the US. The longer North Korea issue goes on, the more China feels the heat, and the more the US can boost military and economic pressure on China and get away with it. The US could never get away with the economic and military pressure we are putting on China without the Korea issue, and I have a feeling we are about to see more of the same after this nuclear test.

You've clearly given this much thought, and land points I do agree with.

I wonder how this has affected the pace of Chinese base-building in the South China Sea?
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05-09-2017, 07:54 PM
RE: North Korea says it successfully tested hydrogen bomb for long-range missile
(05-09-2017 05:45 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(04-09-2017 09:04 PM)BryanS Wrote:  Just a contrarian thought here....I have this sneaking suspicion that Trump knows exactly what he is doing here. That's not to say what he is doing is wise--what I think he might be up to is quite high risk. I think this North Korea mess is nothing but a proxy "war" against China, the real target. Yes, the nuclear issue is a concern in and of its own right, which makes this the perfect conduit to attack China. Consider the following:

--Trump has always made confrontation with China a centerpiece of his populist economics appeal to his supporters.

--Trump has been able to use the NK issue to punish China economically, sanctioning Chinese banks who do business with Korea, initiating investigations into Chinese protectionism and intellectual property theft. This would be much harder to do without North Korea as cover.

--Trump has been able to convince Japan and South Korea to increase its own defense spending and improve it's military capabilities as a result of the Korean issue. Even dovish South Korean president has been forced to backpedal on opposition to THAD installations.

--Banon made clear in his interview that he "didn't know was on the record" that economic war with China was front and center of his advice to Trump. This is an important insight into Trump's thinking.

--Trump has been able to rally the west around the idea that North Korea is "China's fault". While Trump takes the hit of being blamed for ratcheting up pressure today, he successfully blames China for the long term policy of propping up North Korea and their nuclear ambitions.

--Trump's Afganistan speech had a loud and clear message for China--our pivot towards India.

--We might not think of Trump as a master strategist of any sort with one major exception--he most definitely is a master strategist in the use of chaos and playing sides against each other. That is precisely how he got the nomination and the presidency. And this is how he is managing the Korea issue--through chaos.


I am not praising Trump for this dangerous and high risk game I think he is playing--he risks us going to war for real by playing this way. But so long as war does not break out, I also think that the longer this goes on, the more strategic benefit it is to the US. The longer North Korea issue goes on, the more China feels the heat, and the more the US can boost military and economic pressure on China and get away with it. The US could never get away with the economic and military pressure we are putting on China without the Korea issue, and I have a feeling we are about to see more of the same after this nuclear test.

You've clearly given this much thought, and land points I do agree with.

I wonder how this has affected the pace of Chinese base-building in the South China Sea?

I don't think the Chinese have slowed down any, but I recall reading in the past month or two that we have been sailing our military vessels right by the artificial islands, tweaking the Chinese some. I haven't followed the pace of construction of those bases otherwise. The Korea issue has a real risk of escalating into something truly catastrophic, so I guess I've been following that closer than other news.
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06-09-2017, 12:13 AM
RE: North Korea says it successfully tested hydrogen bomb for long-range missile
I know that I, for one, am very impressed. :bravo:

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#sigh
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06-09-2017, 10:11 AM
RE: North Korea says it successfully tested hydrogen bomb for long-range missile
All this stuff about N Korea's nuclear testing is ironic, in hindsight, considering that since 1945 the US has conducted more than 1,050 nuclear tests including 216 atmospheric and underwater tests.

The largest energy yield for N Korean tests has been 300kt, whereas the largest US test was 48,200kt (operation Castle in 1954). To date, the N Korean nuclear tests account for 0.024% of global total kt yield, whereas the US and Russian, combined, account for 91.2% yield.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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06-09-2017, 09:23 PM
RE: North Korea says it successfully tested hydrogen bomb for long-range missile
(06-09-2017 10:11 AM)SYZ Wrote:  All this stuff about N Korea's nuclear testing is ironic, in hindsight, considering that since 1945 the US has conducted more than 1,050 nuclear tests including 216 atmospheric and underwater tests.

The largest energy yield for N Korean tests has been 300kt, whereas the largest US test was 48,200kt (operation Castle in 1954). To date, the N Korean nuclear tests account for 0.024% of global total kt yield, whereas the US and Russian, combined, account for 91.2% yield.

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16-09-2017, 01:27 PM
RE: North Korea says it successfully tested hydrogen bomb for long-range missile
I saw a documentary on North Korea on CNN last night.

The whole thing is a religion it seems, with the Un family as god, America as the devil, and nuclear weapons as the salvation.

We all heard of the blasts of music that all people everywhere in North Korea hear several times a day - a song glorifying the Un family. Just like the mosques in Islam.

They have pilgrimages to the "birth place" of one of the Uns, a place with a gorgeous view over a lake. In reality that Un was born in Russia.

Everyone interviewed says they are ready to fight the Americans, they are just waiting for the supreme leader to say that the time has come. They have been raised for this their entire lives, and everything they can access in ways of information confirms it.

It's just mass delusion, and every bit the same as religious brainwashing.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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16-09-2017, 08:19 PM
RE: North Korea says it successfully tested hydrogen bomb for long-range missile
(03-09-2017 05:11 PM)epronovost Wrote:  
(03-09-2017 04:27 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  And just imagine if the Obama administration had actually done something to prevent the DPRK from getting this far into their program...


But no... It's more fun to pretend that they did all their development since Bozo took office...


Dodgy

The first nuclear test of NK was under the Bush administration. They went hunting for weapons of mass destruction in the wrong country.

Yes indeed. It was in 2006. That was the year Bush upped the ante and called North Korea part of the " Axis of Evil", from memory. Two years before in 2004 South Korea held nuclear weapons tests. It was 13 years before that the US pulled its nukes out of South Korea in 1991.

The West have been pushing for regime change in North Korea for a very long time.
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