Not bitter
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14-10-2012, 10:39 AM
RE: Not bitter
(14-10-2012 08:15 AM)Leela Wrote:  This thread is not about medicine, it is about bitterness concerning ex religion, it is about having gotten good things out of it. You can disagree on the use of herbs as much as you like, I still see that as one of the good parts. When I got kids, they will learn first hand what stuff out there, in the forests is useful and what isn't, just as I know it most of the time. You see, knowing about nature, and about the use of things in nature is good, not bad.

No one said that knowing about herbs or nature is bad. What is bad is when you think you know what herbs do, without any formal education on said topic. No offense, but I wouldn't trust you unless you had a degree in such a field.

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14-10-2012, 11:09 AM
RE: Not bitter
No offense taken Logica, It is your right to trust or not trust anyone with anything. On the topic of degrees, they are overestimated. So many doctors have no clue of what they are doing, so many teachers have no clue what they are teaching. I don't trust people with a degree more than people without.

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14-10-2012, 11:16 AM
RE: Not bitter
Me too. I'm not at all bitter. I was lucky to get out early, though. I have lots of friends in religion, and probably always will. Having my gramps introduce me to "pooh-bahs" at the top of Catholicism, and having an aunt, (nun) who is a college president) allowed me to see very clearly, very early, that ALL people are just people. THAT was my main insight from religion.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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14-10-2012, 11:41 AM
RE: Not bitter
(14-10-2012 11:09 AM)Leela Wrote:  No offense taken Logica, It is your right to trust or not trust anyone with anything. On the topic of degrees, they are overestimated. So many doctors have no clue of what they are doing, so many teachers have no clue what they are teaching. I don't trust people with a degree more than people without.

I do. Give me one good reason why it would be better to assume that their credentials are equal.

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14-10-2012, 02:20 PM
RE: Not bitter
What? This was my personal opinion, not a start for a debate. I met enough teachers and doctors and other people with degrees who had no idea what they were doing IN their studied field. That is good reason enough for me. I have also met enough people who did not study anything and knew a lot of shit very well because they simply read a lot. Believe it or not, reading a lot, teaches you things. I read a lot too and know a lot of things very well without having studied them at a university.
Anyway, as I said, that's a matter of opinion, and if your only reason that someone is trustable is the fact that they went to university, well that is fine, and it's your opinion, and I can accept that.

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14-10-2012, 02:52 PM
RE: Not bitter
They don't know anything about their degree based off of what?

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14-10-2012, 04:23 PM
RE: Not bitter
This is my last answer about the degree shit, k?
And again, MY opinion, which you don't have to share. I had doctors misdiagnosing me, I had teachers not being able to answer subject related questions, I had all kinds of people who studied their field, tell me bullshit and not being able to answer related questions. The fact that they sat down for a few years and read a lot of books about it doesn't mean anything. They read it, they know it until the exam is over, and that's it.
I do trust people who have a passion on the subject because normally those are the people who read, who think about it, who try out and learn, who do not stop studying when university is over. And there are enough people out there who never studied a certain field in university, ergo they have no DEGREE, but they do know what they are doing and what they are talking about.
And that is why I (personally - my opinion - which noone has to share) don't trust people with a degree more than anyone else.

Now as this is derailing like crazy I am not going to answer anymore about degrees. If you need to discuss it further either start a new thread or pm me. Not gonna respond on it in this thread anymore.

PS. yes I am annoyed and tired and ill so pardon me being a little rough here.

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14-10-2012, 04:34 PM (This post was last modified: 14-10-2012 04:39 PM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Not bitter
(14-10-2012 04:23 PM)Leela Wrote:  This is my last answer about the degree shit, k?
And again, MY opinion, which you don't have to share. I had doctors misdiagnosing me, I had teachers not being able to answer subject related questions, I had all kinds of people who studied their field, tell me bullshit and not being able to answer related questions. The fact that they sat down for a few years and read a lot of books about it doesn't mean anything. They read it, they know it until the exam is over, and that's it.
I do trust people who have a passion on the subject because normally those are the people who read, who think about it, who try out and learn, who do not stop studying when university is over. And there are enough people out there who never studied a certain field in university, ergo they have no DEGREE, but they do know what they are doing and what they are talking about.
And that is why I (personally - my opinion - which noone has to share) don't trust people with a degree more than anyone else.

Just because it is opinion does not mean it is exempt from falsehood or scrutiny.

Okay? So? Misdiagnoses occur all the time, even with the most seasoned doctors. Some questions require specialization in the subject. A dermatologist may not know something that another does. Now, I am not saying that there aren't stupid people with degrees, but it is more logical to be inclined to trust a person that was actually educated in the subject, rather than a person who Googles every topic they are interested in and then deem themselves worthy to dictate what is healthy and what isn't.

If I were you, I'd trust a person with a medical degree far more than I'd trust the neighborhood vagabond.

P.S: This pertains to your first point in the original post, so I fail to see how this is a derailment.

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14-10-2012, 04:49 PM
RE: Not bitter
Leela, you're on a website full of contrarians who are very picky about all beliefs being based on reason and evidence, and you're... surprised?... That they're nitpicking at aspects of your beliefs that aren't necessarily based on good evidence?

This is a forum about debating. So let's debate. If you abandon a debate for the sole sake of holding onto a belief that you cherish more than truth, then you're no better than a Creationist. A little less batshit fucking loco maybe, but still as dishonest with yourself as they are. Let your beliefs be challenged. Or don't.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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14-10-2012, 04:52 PM (This post was last modified: 14-10-2012 05:02 PM by Leela.)
RE: Not bitter
Logica: Well you have not presented any info that would make me change my opinion and I did not claim that anything I said is the ultimate truth.
And my first post was not about medical degrees. My first post was about what I personally found useful and good in my exfaith, things that I will carry forward to my children. It was about not being bitter about it or having left it. See the thread title "Not bitter".

Phaedrus: I know in what kind of forum I am here, been here for long enough. The nitpicking annoys me everywhere and in every thread and from everyone. I am not doing it because it annoys me so much. I am not assuming things based on a post, I am answering to exactly what is in the post because otherwise I would go offtopic. (which i usually do in forum games or so, but not in serious topics, it is disrespectful, so I don't do it, and normally I wish for the opponent to do the same but again I am proven that I can not measure other people by my own standards)
And I am not holding onto whatever BELIEF. If no better or more useful info is presented to me and I don't feel the need to look it up right now, then my opinion will not change. I don't feel the need to look it up right now because I do get where you guys are coming from. I never said I am not taking medicine prescribed by doctors or that every doctor is stupid. I said I don't trust them. And I won't change that until I find one that knows their job properly. And that goes for any profession. So for the time being, and until anyone can proof that it is bad for me I will keep drinking teas instead of taking pills if possible. And I will keep using those herbs and roots I learnt about and can be sure that they won't poison me. And I don't care if anyone else will drink those or trusts me in mixing them. There has yet to be evidence that I am doing the wrong thing. But there is none right now. Until know, all my teas helped. Some helped well, some even better. I worked on the recepies, and if you look up the herbs, you will find out that they do help, that these are researched facts. And the one doctor who I have ever trusted with my medical stuff because he was the only one who was good at his job, this one doctor actually did exactly this. I told him what kind of tea I wanna make to help, and he agreed or disagreed.

But whatever.
Offline for now, it's night and I am tired.

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