Not bitter

[Misanthropik]

(14-10-2012 04:49 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Leela, you're on a website full of contrarians who are very picky about all beliefs being based on reason and evidence, and you're... surprised?... That they're nitpicking at aspects of your beliefs that aren't necessarily based on good evidence?

This is a forum about debating. So let's debate. If you abandon a debate for the sole sake of holding onto a belief that you cherish more than truth, then you're no better than a Creationist. A little less batshit fucking loco maybe, but still as dishonest with yourself as they are. Let your beliefs be challenged. Or don't.

That's one thing I like about this forum. It has its own little version of "peer-review".

[Logica Humano]

(14-10-2012 04:52 PM)Leela Wrote:  Logica: Well you have not presented any info that would make me change my opinion and I did not claim that anything I said is the ultimate truth.
And my first post was not about medical degrees. My first post was about what I personally found useful and good in my exfaith, things that I will carry forward to my children. It was about not being bitter about it or having left it. See the thread title "Not bitter".

I have presented the logical basis as to why you are incorrect. Answer the question: Would you trust a vagabond who claims to know how to heal your ailments or an MD who claims to know how to heal your ailments? Answer the question: Would you attempt to cure cancer with "alternative medicine", or with chemotherapy?

Your first point addressed the credentials, or rather lack thereof, of medical professionals. That is simply an illogical and malformed position.

[Leela]

I am not answering the question. Because your questions are based on assumptions. Check my first post once more, you might have read it a few times by now but read it just once more. Nowhere did I claim anything of what you just mentioned.
The point that you disagree with my approach is your good right. Trust whoever you want.
My first post did not address the credentials or lack of medical professionals, that was an answer to one of your assumptions.
I am done with you, sir. Try and troll someone else's thread.

[Logica Humano]

(08-10-2012 03:15 AM)Leela Wrote:  1.
I learnt about the use and dangers of different herbs and roots for teas and about plants in general. And I am truly sorry for those people who do not know about these herbs because they are easier on you, and they are not made in a laboratory. And the herbs are not that expensive if you actually think about it, they are cheaper but work just as well. Not saying I can heal cancer or HIV with it them, but for common things they are great, Bronchities, pneumonia, sours, fever, problems urinating, a cold, smaller infections, and many more.
When I lived in a shared place, my roommate and I both got Pneumonia at the same time (from a visitor). We both have Asthma so naturally it was really bad, we both had to stay in bed. I made myself a tea out of herbs and offered it to her as well. She drank one sip and told me that it tastes horrible, never touched it again. I had 5 cups a day and 3 days later I was well enough to work again (no running around or exhausting of course) while she was still in bed for 5 more days. These teas do not have to taste well, I told her that, they are medicine.
I used to have a doctor with exactly my approach, and it was a really good doctor. He told me a specific tea and 4 days later I was well. Sure, not for the really bad things, but just making a point here. It is not like this stuff is not serious. I had various doctors telling me to drink specific teas for specific things and it has always worked. Medicine does not have to be in form of a pill or drops.

(14-10-2012 11:09 AM)Leela Wrote:  
No offense taken Logica, It is your right to trust or not trust anyone with anything. On the topic of degrees, they are overestimated. So many doctors have no clue of what they are doing, so many teachers have no clue what they are teaching. I don't trust people with a degree more than people without.

Then don't answer the question, but I nailed your belief. I already know your answer.

[Leela]

(08-10-2012 03:15 AM)Leela Wrote:  1.
I learnt about the use and dangers of different herbs and roots for teas and about plants in general. ... Not saying I can heal cancer or HIV with it them, but for common things they are great, Bronchities, pneumonia, sours, fever, problems urinating, a cold, smaller infections, and many more.

(14-10-2012 08:15 AM)Leela Wrote:  I did not take against medicine.
But de facto, right now I just took a pill for my stomach > guess what, I have no herb at home that could help me with it right now, so I took a pill.

(14-10-2012 02:20 PM)Leela Wrote:  Anyway, as I said, that's a matter of opinion, and if your only reason that someone is trustable is the fact that they went to university, well that is fine, and it's your opinion, and I can accept that.

I can accept your opinion, can you accept mine?

(14-10-2012 04:34 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Just because it is opinion does not mean it is exempt from falsehood or scrutiny.
...
If I were you, I'd trust a person with a medical degree far more than I'd trust the neighborhood vagabond.

I did not claim that my opinion is the ultimate truth. and this post was the first where you assumed stuff about vagabonds.

(15-10-2012 02:19 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Answer the question: Would you trust a vagabond who claims to know how to heal your ailments or an MD who claims to know how to heal your ailments? Answer the question: Would you attempt to cure cancer with "alternative medicine", or with chemotherapy?

See first quote and prev statement.

(15-10-2012 04:01 PM)Leela Wrote:  I am not answering the question. Because your questions are based on assumptions.

See everything before this post in this thread.

(16-10-2012 10:48 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Then don't answer the question, but I nailed your belief. I already know your answer.

What belief exactly, because I have not stated a belief anywhere.

Now what about this, you stop trying to change my opinion. Not sure what gets you so mad but suck it up. You can't win every argument you start.

I said it twice before and I quoted it here in this post, I will say it once more, who you trust and who you don't trust is *a matter of opinion*. I can live with you trusting whoever you trust, it's your live. I expect the same from you. Let me trust in whoever I want to and live with it. Where are we, kindergarten? Did I steal your sucker or why are you crying?

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Shame, another thread derailed for some shit that has nothing to do with the original post. Gonna leave it there, I have nothing more to say.

[Logica Humano]

(16-10-2012 01:48 PM)Leela Wrote:  

(08-10-2012 03:15 AM)Leela Wrote:  1.
I learnt about the use and dangers of different herbs and roots for teas and about plants in general. ... Not saying I can heal cancer or HIV with it them, but for common things they are great, Bronchities, pneumonia, sours, fever, problems urinating, a cold, smaller infections, and many more.

(14-10-2012 08:15 AM)Leela Wrote:  I did not take against medicine.
But de facto, right now I just took a pill for my stomach > guess what, I have no herb at home that could help me with it right now, so I took a pill.

(14-10-2012 02:20 PM)Leela Wrote:  Anyway, as I said, that's a matter of opinion, and if your only reason that someone is trustable is the fact that they went to university, well that is fine, and it's your opinion, and I can accept that.

I can accept your opinion, can you accept mine?

(14-10-2012 04:34 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Just because it is opinion does not mean it is exempt from falsehood or scrutiny.
...
If I were you, I'd trust a person with a medical degree far more than I'd trust the neighborhood vagabond.

I did not claim that my opinion is the ultimate truth. and this post was the first where you assumed stuff about vagabonds.

(15-10-2012 02:19 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Answer the question: Would you trust a vagabond who claims to know how to heal your ailments or an MD who claims to know how to heal your ailments? Answer the question: Would you attempt to cure cancer with "alternative medicine", or with chemotherapy?

See first quote and prev statement.

(15-10-2012 04:01 PM)Leela Wrote:  I am not answering the question. Because your questions are based on assumptions.

See everything before this post in this thread.

(16-10-2012 10:48 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Then don't answer the question, but I nailed your belief. I already know your answer.

What belief exactly, because I have not stated a belief anywhere.

Now what about this, you stop trying to change my opinion. Not sure what gets you so mad but suck it up. You can't win every argument you start.

I said it twice before and I quoted it here in this post, I will say it once more, who you trust and who you don't trust is *a matter of opinion*. I can live with you trusting whoever you trust, it's your live. I expect the same from you. Let me trust in whoever I want to and live with it. Where are we, kindergarten? Did I steal your sucker or why are you crying?

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Shame, another thread derailed for some shit that has nothing to do with the original post. Gonna leave it there, I have nothing more to say.

You are acting as though since it is an opinion, I should not scrutinize it. I also love how you are projecting yourself on me by claiming I am mad. If I may ask, where in my previous statements pertaining to the topic of credentials have I indicated that I am anywhere close to be emotionally invested in this debate? I don't "cry", I persist until one of three results occur:
A) I am proven wrong.
B) I am proven right.
C) My fellow debater decides to leave the argument.

You have openly stated that you do not trust doctors because of their degree, and that a person not in possession of a medical degree is as trustworthy as a person without equivalent credentials. I proposed a scenario in which you got to decide, and you avoided the question. That is your choice, not mine. I cannot force you to answer it, nor will I attempt to. I already know your answer for said question, and so do you, so you can either keep getting flustered over my argument, or you can leave like you have said.

[Leela]

there is no right or wrong on the topic of "who do you trust".
You ask me if I would trust anyone > no.
You ask if I would trust a doctor BECAUSE he has a degree > no.
You ask not, but I will answer it anyway, if I would trust someone who PROOFS that he knows his shit > yes

Count this as you won, or as me leaving, or count this as me being the fuck annoyed out of this topic, because it IS indeed a derailment. Just check back on the title, and decide for yourself if this is still about being bitter on your ex-faith.

[Logica Humano]

I proposed a scenario in which you had to decide. You refused to answer. Do you not think that this is possibly a situation in which one opinion is more correct and logical than another? It is an opinion that Communism is an effective means of economics. Is it? No.

I can name a thread "Mitt Romney" and the original post could have nothing to do with him. I am addressing a statement you made in your first point. That is not derailment.