Not sure what's going to happen
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22-03-2016, 11:28 AM
Not sure what's going to happen
I don't hide the fact that I am an atheist from people who know me. I don't broadcast it and I don't push it on anyone. I own it when it comes up and don't shy away on the rare occasion that someone asks me about it. I don't go out of my way to try and engage people but rather, I just keep it to myself. It makes it easier for the people in my life who cling to the desperate hope that one day, I will come back to the fold. I have no idea how they perceive me since it is a subject that is a bit taboo. I want to talk to people about myself since I think that next to none of them have the correct perception of me or how I came to be the person that I am today. I want to talk to people about it because I hate the way that folks like us are portrayed in the christian books. That we are rudderless, hopeless, sad, or whatever. That said, I posted this video on my facebook page the other day.





I didn't do it to try and push anyone, I just liked how Seth said it as it was far more eloquent then I could have done. I also liked it because I have personally encountered everything that he said and I know that many of you have as well and to much worse degrees than I. After I hit the "post" button, I thought of my wife and I was scared of what she'd do or rather, I was scared more of what her friends would tell her to do. I know that she saw it. She had to of because about 15 minutes later, I got a friend request from a friend of hers who is very nice woman who I really like. I like her and her husband both very much. I also got a post from my mother-in-law saying how sad she was and also demonstrating that she really didn't listen to what Seth was saying. To back up a minute, I have no idea whether my MIL knows I am an atheist. She knows I don't go to church and really don't follow it but I am not sure whether my wife has told her or not. Oh well, I'll find that out eventually.

This brings me to the pressure cooker that is in my head now. She hasn't said one thing to me about it. Not one. Not even a curious, "what did you mean there" or "do you really feel that way" or "I want to talk to you about what I saw and how it made me feel" or something like that. Hell, anything would be better than the deafening silence. I have this funny feeling that she reached out to her friends in the church and they told her to not talk to me about it. She has been told this in the past, I know that for a fact. I know that she is angry at "god" for not revealing himself to me. She told me so a month or so ago. I am really scared of what she will do or what her friends will tell her or what garbage book they will tell her to read instead of just having a discussion and getting it from the source. A book that will quite possibly misrepresent me or what I think or why I think it. I know this is weighing heavily on her and it shows. She won't acknowledge it to me but I can tell. After 15 years, I can read her well enough. Communication is what has kept us together for so long and I really hate that this stupid subject is getting in the way. We can talk about anything else but the wall that religion has put up around her would make Donald Trump proud. (I wonder if god made satan pay for it)

How good can something be where the main inspiration explicitly stated that he came to divide families? How can someone be told not to talk to their spouse and they actually listen to them? How do people blindly follow teachings where the main teacher said that you are to hate your families or you're not worthy? I think Seth was absolutely correct that this is a prison designed to look like a mansion. Where communication and discourse are the key to freedom and the fellow believers are the guards keeping you away from the scary key. My wife has told me that her fellow believers keep her accountable. I don't think she has any idea what that really means and is just parroting what she is told. The "accountability" is essentially shaming people who they feel are straying away from the pack. The fact that if people miss bible studies in their small groups, they are held "accountable" by having to go in front of the group and explain why, thereby publicly humiliating them in front of their peers. The fact that a wife will not talk to her husband about something important to her is absolutely disgusting. How sad. Faith is something to be pitied, not celebrated. Faith is the sword that the character Jesus spoke of. The idea of faith as the most important thing and it has done little but to serve as a wedge. The thought that I keep having is that how many of you broke off relationships with believers when you left the faith as opposed to how many believers severed ties with you? I am fairly certain that the faithful are the swordsmen. After all, we laid down our arms when we refused to accept that which is not evidently true.

Thanks for reading.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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22-03-2016, 11:36 AM
RE: Not sure what's going to happen
Vibes. I would say talk to her about it. Especially if it's bothering you. At least then you'll know how she feels.

My wife is also a believer, apparently more so then I realized before I deconverted. Hope it works out for you. Thumbsup

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22-03-2016, 11:44 AM
RE: Not sure what's going to happen
(22-03-2016 11:28 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  I don't hide the fact that I am an atheist from people who know me. I don't broadcast it and I don't push it on anyone. I own it when it comes up and don't shy away on the rare occasion that someone asks me about it. I don't go out of my way to try and engage people but rather, I just keep it to myself. It makes it easier for the people in my life who cling to the desperate hope that one day, I will come back to the fold. I have no idea how they perceive me since it is a subject that is a bit taboo. I want to talk to people about myself since I think that next to none of them have the correct perception of me or how I came to be the person that I am today. I want to talk to people about it because I hate the way that folks like us are portrayed in the christian books. That we are rudderless, hopeless, sad, or whatever. That said, I posted this video on my facebook page the other day.





I didn't do it to try and push anyone, I just liked how Seth said it as it was far more eloquent then I could have done. I also liked it because I have personally encountered everything that he said and I know that many of you have as well and to much worse degrees than I. After I hit the "post" button, I thought of my wife and I was scared of what she'd do or rather, I was scared more of what her friends would tell her to do. I know that she saw it. She had to of because about 15 minutes later, I got a friend request from a friend of hers who is very nice woman who I really like. I like her and her husband both very much. I also got a post from my mother-in-law saying how sad she was and also demonstrating that she really didn't listen to what Seth was saying. To back up a minute, I have no idea whether my MIL knows I am an atheist. She knows I don't go to church and really don't follow it but I am not sure whether my wife has told her or not. Oh well, I'll find that out eventually.

This brings me to the pressure cooker that is in my head now. She hasn't said one thing to me about it. Not one. Not even a curious, "what did you mean there" or "do you really feel that way" or "I want to talk to you about what I saw and how it made me feel" or something like that. Hell, anything would be better than the deafening silence. I have this funny feeling that she reached out to her friends in the church and they told her to not talk to me about it. She has been told this in the past, I know that for a fact. I know that she is angry at "god" for not revealing himself to me. She told me so a month or so ago. I am really scared of what she will do or what her friends will tell her or what garbage book they will tell her to read instead of just having a discussion and getting it from the source. A book that will quite possibly misrepresent me or what I think or why I think it. I know this is weighing heavily on her and it shows. She won't acknowledge it to me but I can tell. After 15 years, I can read her well enough. Communication is what has kept us together for so long and I really hate that this stupid subject is getting in the way. We can talk about anything else but the wall that religion has put up around her would make Donald Trump proud. (I wonder if god made satan pay for it)

How good can something be where the main inspiration explicitly stated that he came to divide families? How can someone be told not to talk to their spouse and they actually listen to them? How do people blindly follow teachings where the main teacher said that you are to hate your families or you're not worthy? I think Seth was absolutely correct that this is a prison designed to look like a mansion. Where communication and discourse are the key to freedom and the fellow believers are the guards keeping you away from the scary key. My wife has told me that her fellow believers keep her accountable. I don't think she has any idea what that really means and is just parroting what she is told. The "accountability" is essentially shaming people who they feel are straying away from the pack. The fact that if people miss bible studies in their small groups, they are held "accountable" by having to go in front of the group and explain why, thereby publicly humiliating them in front of their peers. The fact that a wife will not talk to her husband about something important to her is absolutely disgusting. How sad. Faith is something to be pitied, not celebrated. Faith is the sword that the character Jesus spoke of. The idea of faith as the most important thing and it has done little but to serve as a wedge. The thought that I keep having is that how many of you broke off relationships with believers when you left the faith as opposed to how many believers severed ties with you? I am fairly certain that the faithful are the swordsmen. After all, we laid down our arms when we refused to accept that which is not evidently true.

Thanks for reading.

Let her digest what she has seen..... you don't know what is going on inside her. If it did something to make her question things, she would be in a fragile state - and should be asking questions eventually.

I don't know her personality, but if Seth did touch something it is deep down and you need to be patient.

Only you have the access to read the situation properly....but from what I see, most people who have enough doubt to cause questioning need time to deal with the instability it causes them...

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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22-03-2016, 11:47 AM
RE: Not sure what's going to happen
(22-03-2016 11:28 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  ... That said, I posted this video on my facebook page the other day.
... After I hit the "post" button, I thought of my wife
...
... Communication is what has kept us together for so long
... The fact that a wife will not talk to her husband about something important to her is absolutely disgusting.
...

I know this is going to come across as a criticism ... but I mean it as a genuine question:

Did you communicate with your wife "about something important to" you before hit "post".

I'm guessing not because you say you thought of your wife "after".

Given that "Communication is what has kept us together for so long", is she perhaps upset by your lack of communication in this instance?

Might it be less about your beliefs and more about her feelings of exclusion? Perhaps she feels this 'outing' of yourself was something she would have liked to be involved in (even if only so that she could be prepared for the reaction of friends/family).

I'm not saying that that is the only factor but I wonder if it might be one reason for the cold shoulder.

Consider

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22-03-2016, 12:00 PM
RE: Not sure what's going to happen
(22-03-2016 11:47 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I know this is going to come across as a criticism ... but I mean it as a genuine question:

Did you communicate with your wife "about something important to" you before hit "post".

I'm guessing not because you say you thought of your wife "after".

Good point. No.

(22-03-2016 11:47 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Given that "Communication is what has kept us together for so long", is she perhaps upset by your lack of communication in this instance?

I really doubt it. I have openly referred to myself as a atheist in conversation with her and it didn't seem to bother her (not outwardly anyway). She is aware that I don't but it but whenever we discuss the topic, she often gets upset and shuts down.

(22-03-2016 11:47 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Might it be less about your beliefs and more about her feelings of exclusion? Perhaps she feels this 'outing' of yourself was something she would have liked to be involved in (even if only so that she could be prepared for the reaction of friends/family).

I'm not saying that that is the only factor but I wonder if it might be one reason for the cold shoulder.

Again, I don't think so. I really think that she thinks that there is still hope for me. I have said several times that I am not opposed to the idea of a god, gods, or whatever, I just will not accept anything on bad evidence or no evidence at all. It is possible that she is still coming to terms with the fact that I actually don't buy it. And the even scarier thing is that I can justify it. I know that many of her friends already know but I if I had to guess, they think that I don't believe for the same reasons that those christian books say I don't (which is of course crap). I don't think she would ever want to be a part of something like me coming out as not only a non-believer, but an atheist. The part in the video where Seth said "they look at you for what you might have been" hits home for me because I know that in this department, I am not the husband she wants. I think she is still struggling with that. The problem as I see it is that her faith and her community have instructed her in the past to not engage me about it. I think as a protection for her because they have no idea what I'll say.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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22-03-2016, 12:31 PM
RE: Not sure what's going to happen
As you know, I dated a nonbeliever when I was a devout Christian. I always hoped he would have a "come to Jesus" moment. I also viewed it as "my job" as a good Christian to try and bring him closer to God. I just told myself he had no religious upbringing as a young person as his parents were anti-religion, so he just needed to get to know God. Needless to say that ended in many fights. I always second guessed myself in that rship. I loved him, but he was not Christian, had no desire to be Christian, and my church did not believe in staying with someone if you are not equally yolked. In fact, doing that is a personal fuck you to God. I really struggled with all of that and all the while, kept holding out hope that my bf would realize that God loved him and would have a desire to be religious. None of my family knew that he was agnostic borderline atheist. My mom and certain members of my family would have thought he didn't have good morals or something like that if she knew of his non-belief. And of course, she would still feel this way due to his anti-Jesus stance, despite knowing him and knowing he was a good person prior to her knowledge of his unbelief.

In thinking back to my Christian self, I think I would have lost my shit if I saw him post something like that on his facebook page. I would fear the wrath of my church, of the various church members, of my family, my friends. I would fear they would think I was not "godly" enough or some ridiculousness. I can understand your wife having some level of reaction to all of this.

That said, I am now an atheist. I think we need to pierce holes through the crazy every once in awhile. I am not sure what I would have done in your situation now that I am an atheist. Would I have posted it too? I dunno, maybe.

I think you have a difficult situation when one believes and the other doesn't in a rship. I remember how hard it was in my situation. Her non-reaction could mean so many things.

What motivated you to post it? And maybe you mentioned this already and I missed it. I think if you look at your motivation for posting it, you might have your answer as to how she is feeling.

I hope everything works out. Hug
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22-03-2016, 01:31 PM
RE: Not sure what's going to happen
(22-03-2016 12:31 PM)jennybee Wrote:  As you know, I dated a nonbeliever when I was a devout Christian. I always hoped he would have a "come to Jesus" moment. I also viewed it as "my job" as a good Christian to try and bring him closer to God. I just told myself he had no religious upbringing as a young person as his parents were anti-religion, so he just needed to get to know God. Needless to say that ended in many fights. I always second guessed myself in that rship. I loved him, but he was not Christian, had no desire to be Christian, and my church did not believe in staying with someone if you are not equally yolked. In fact, doing that is a personal fuck you to God. I really struggled with all of that and all the while, kept holding out hope that my bf would realize that God loved him and would have a desire to be religious. None of my family knew that he was agnostic borderline atheist. My mom and certain members of my family would have thought he didn't have good morals or something like that if she knew of his non-belief. And of course, she would still feel this way due to his anti-Jesus stance, despite knowing him and knowing he was a good person prior to her knowledge of his unbelief.

In thinking back to my Christian self, I think I would have lost my shit if I saw him post something like that on his facebook page. I would fear the wrath of my church, of the various church members, of my family, my friends. I would fear they would think I was not "godly" enough or some ridiculousness. I can understand your wife having some level of reaction to all of this.

That said, I am now an atheist. I think we need to pierce holes through the crazy every once in awhile. I am not sure what I would have done in your situation now that I am an atheist. Would I have posted it too? I dunno, maybe.

I think you have a difficult situation when one believes and the other doesn't in a rship. I remember how hard it was in my situation. Her non-reaction could mean so many things.

What motivated you to post it? And maybe you mentioned this already and I missed it. I think if you look at your motivation for posting it, you might have your answer as to how she is feeling.

I hope everything works out. Hug

I am not completely sure TBH. I saw it and something compelled me to post it. I never post anything on my FB and I hardly ever go there. Perhaps FSM was speaking to me. Tongue

I really think that if I was like this 12 or so years ago, she would have left me. The fact that I wasn't an atheist when we got married is probably why she stayed with me to begin with because I really don't think that she would have stayed when we were dating if I was an atheist back then. I know that there were people who were telling her not to date me because I wasn't a professed christian. I am glad she didn't listen, but this is something that I have heard for many years. I think that most of what she hears is not done in front of me.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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22-03-2016, 03:39 PM
RE: Not sure what's going to happen
I am not a christian- I am just trying to think about this from the perspective that a christian woman may, based upon the things she was taught. I remembered there are some things the bible has in it about women married to unbelievers- and when I googled, so many things came up about it...lots of "ladies, win your husband over by being submissive to him" articles and so on...
http://biblehub.com/1_peter/3-1.htm
http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/7-14.htm

"For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy."
"In the same way, you wives must accept the authority of your husbands. Then, even if some refuse to obey the Good News, your godly lives will speak to them without any words. They will be won over"
She may be being quiet because she was taught that it is the right thing to do- be patient and quiet and try to win you over... I do think you should always ask-she may not feel the same way about it as you think she does, there is no way to know if you do not ask. The bible places many restrictions upon how women should behave towards their husbands- it may be a completely wonderful thing to say things like..."how her opinion matters to you, that you would have been more thoughtful if you had discussed it with her, that you care about how she feels, and that in the future you will think before you post-" such loving and freeing thoughts, taking her feelings into account, will be a nice reflection upon you.
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22-03-2016, 05:08 PM
RE: Not sure what's going to happen
Maybe she's upset because you outed yourself without giving her a heads up to be prepared and now she's taking heat for it. She might see that as being inconsiderate of the position your put her in. I would because basically you threw her under the bus with her religious peer group.

I understand your position BUT if you take the religious aspect out and say make it some other personal or private issue that only you two share the knowledge of and then you go and blab it out without giving her notice... you see what I mean.

It was some overshare on your part, which happens but she might see it as a small betrayal to her friends. She may try not to discuss it with them and then here you go posting it in their faces.

Now, if you want to know what she's thinking, ask her. Tell her you acted rashly and didn't think what this might mean for her, apologize. Ask her if she will discuss it with you because you don't want this one act to become a wedge, no matter how small, in your loving relationship.

We all make choices that on hind site were self-serving, sometimes even thoughtless, letting her stew or worry it until it's bigger than it should be would be a mistake, IMO. Good luck.
Hug

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22-03-2016, 07:16 PM
RE: Not sure what's going to happen
Question: Does your wife have a FB page and does she post religious stuff on it?

If she does and doesn’t “check” with you first before posting then I can’t see how she can hold the double standard.

Just saying...

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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