Nothing, doesn't exist
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23-08-2017, 02:16 PM
RE: Nothing, doesn't exist
(22-08-2017 11:37 PM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  I think nothing does exist, I just think it's outside our senses/perceptions.

If "something" *exists* then "nothing existing" is an oxymoron.
The absence of a thing is nothing more than absence (of it).
Nothing ("no thing") is not a thing.

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23-08-2017, 02:42 PM
RE: Nothing, doesn't exist
(23-08-2017 01:34 PM)Propwash Wrote:  On the concept of "nothing", let me toss these two pics into the playpen-
The one on the left is "nothingness"...

[Image: atom-2_zps0umgspbd.jpg~original]
Is it nothing or the empty space the atom is not inhabiting?
If its meant to be "nothing", how do you know "nothing" is black, uniform and two-dimensional?

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23-08-2017, 02:52 PM
RE: Nothing, doesn't exist
(23-08-2017 02:42 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Is it nothing or the empty space the atom is not inhabiting?
If its meant to be "nothing", how do you know "nothing" is black, uniform and two-dimensional?

Good point, we know space (or "space-time") is stretchy and elastic, therefore it's "something" and not "nothing"..Smile
Perhaps a more suitable word to describe true nothingness would be "void".
We could therefore visualise our universe as "a bubble of spacetime in the void", though this of course would require the universe to have a distinct boundary beyond which lies the void, and as yet scientists haven't discovered such a boundary or "final frontier".
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23-08-2017, 03:05 PM
RE: Nothing, doesn't exist
(23-08-2017 02:52 PM)Propwash Wrote:  Perhaps a more suitable word to describe true nothingness would be "void".
We could therefore visualise our universe as "a bubble of spacetime in the void", though this of course would require the universe to have a distinct boundary beyond which lies the void, and as yet scientists haven't discovered such a boundary or "final frontier".
I dont think "void" is a description, its just another word you used. So let me ask you again: If "void" describes nothingness, then "void" must refer to some specifics of nothingness, some properties. What are those properties?

I am asking for a specific reason, and that reason is: So far i have only heared "nothing" being described as absence of properties. However absence of properties is nothing in itself. Like darkess is absence of light, and notihng in itself, like cold is absence of heat (movement of molecules and atoms) and nothing in itself. I think many people confuse absence of someting with something else called "nothing".

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23-08-2017, 03:23 PM
RE: Nothing, doesn't exist
(23-08-2017 02:42 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(23-08-2017 01:34 PM)Propwash Wrote:  On the concept of "nothing", let me toss these two pics into the playpen-
The one on the left is "nothingness"...

[Image: atom-2_zps0umgspbd.jpg~original]
Is it nothing or the empty space the atom is not inhabiting?
If its meant to be "nothing", how do you know "nothing" is black, uniform and two-dimensional?

We don't. There is no such thing as nothingness in this universe. It's an idea. Space is not empty (quantum foam and all that).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_foam

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23-08-2017, 07:15 PM
RE: Nothing, doesn't exist
(23-08-2017 03:23 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  We don't. There is no such thing as nothingness in this universe. It's an idea. Space is not empty (quantum foam and all that).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_foam
And as far as I recall from what I've learned, even if space inside our universe were truly empty, that still wouldn't be nothing since space itself is still considered "something".

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24-08-2017, 02:40 AM
RE: Nothing, doesn't exist
Nothing

If sound is a thing, then does silence become nothing ?
If ripples on a pond are how we define existence, then does a flat pond define nothing ?

In a universe in which you can't remove the pond, you are always going to have ripples.

Nothing describes non existence.
It's a concept that embodies a measurement value of zero across every possible way of measurement.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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24-08-2017, 04:08 AM
RE: Nothing, doesn't exist
(24-08-2017 02:40 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Nothing

If sound is a thing, then does silence become nothing ?
Silence is not a thing. Its the absence of sound. It is not-sound. The absence of sound is not necessarily nothing. There can be not-sound and still other things around.

(24-08-2017 02:40 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  If ripples on a pond are how we define existence, then does a flat pond define nothing ?
Why should anybody define ripples on a pond as existence? Consider It will only lead to inconsistency and confusion in the process, as the second part of your statement shows: A pond without ripples is still a thing, a pond.

(24-08-2017 02:40 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  In a universe in which you can't remove the pond, you are always going to have ripples.
I think you are getting confused at this point. Please explain.

(24-08-2017 02:40 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Nothing describes non existence.
Non existence of what? I think your answer should be "of anything" (to make it short Big Grin ). Here we are again at the problem of the previous post i commented. If you want to claim nothing exists, as a thing, then you need to give it properties. But you cant, so we describe it as absence of everything else. But this tells us nothing about *nothing* Hobo , because it.is.not.a.thing.

Frankly i am suprised this is such a problem for many people, but hey, maybe i am the one who is wrong. Dont we have people here who are much more experienced with.....erm...nothing...you know what i mean Laugh out load

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25-08-2017, 02:31 PM
RE: Nothing, doesn't exist
(24-08-2017 02:40 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Nothing

If sound is a thing, then does silence become nothing ?
If ripples on a pond are how we define existence, then does a flat pond define nothing ?

In a universe in which you can't remove the pond, you are always going to have ripples.

Nothing describes non existence.
It's a concept that embodies a measurement value of zero across every possible way of measurement.

the physics that are applied to ripples on a pond exist. sound is able to exist even when there is none. this might put a whole new spin on existence. "things that are allowed to exist, exist".
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25-08-2017, 06:29 PM
RE: Nothing, doesn't exist
(24-08-2017 04:08 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Frankly i am suprised this is such a problem for many people, but hey, maybe i am the one who is wrong. Dont we have people here who are much more experienced with.....erm...nothing...you know what i mean Laugh out load

I had a thread a while ago on the same topic, some of the conversation there might be relevant. Thumbsup

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ponderance

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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