Nothing makes sense
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29-01-2014, 02:15 AM
RE: Nothing makes sense
(29-01-2014 12:43 AM)Chippy Wrote:  
(23-01-2014 09:05 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  It seems impossible to rationalize anything

The statement:

Nothing makes sense.

is also self-refuting because if it is true then it is at least one thing that "makes sense".

The statement:

It seems impossible to rationalize anything

is just autobiographical information. So you are unable to "rationalize anything", so what? Given that you've thus far posted two self-refuting statements it suggests that you have no understanding of logic or epistemology so it is unsurprising that to you "[i]t seems impossible to rationalize anything".

Self refuting statements? Like: "that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence", or "you can never be 100% sure about anything"?

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29-01-2014, 02:17 AM
RE: Nothing makes sense
Your statement may be born of despondency.

If so, come on, rationality is all around us, from the simple (1+1=2 and "I think therefor I am,") to the profoundly difficult. Think about what is real: that your are means you have a place in the universe, your spot, sounds rational to me.

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29-01-2014, 02:18 AM
RE: Nothing makes sense
Can you tell me how 3 laws of logic(identity, non contradiction and excluded middle). Can be false?
That's where rationality comes from.
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29-01-2014, 02:21 AM
RE: Nothing makes sense
I suspect that some respondents are (perhaps deliberately) overlooking the non-literal intent of the OP.

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29-01-2014, 02:31 AM (This post was last modified: 29-01-2014 02:36 AM by Phil Hill.)
Re: RE: Nothing makes sense
(29-01-2014 12:49 AM)Chippy Wrote:  
(29-01-2014 12:23 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  Yeah, it's based on the natural laws of the universe. That doesn't mean it couldn't change.

1+1=2 has nothing to do with the "natural laws of the universe" it is a mathematical tautology, i.e. the expressions on either side of the equality sign are the same by definition.

'1+1' is equal by definition to '2'. Assuming that we are numerating in base 10 then 1+1=2 is always true and will always be true. We can be certain that 1+1=2 because of its tautologous nature.

Definition has nothing to do with it. Did you learn that at Google University? Here is a small example. Go outdoors and pick up one rock in your right hand and another one in your left hand. Now go inside and let go of each rock so they fall on your kitchen table. How many rocks do you see or do you see a definition? Tautology my ass.

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29-01-2014, 02:36 AM
RE: Nothing makes sense
(29-01-2014 01:52 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Now, given that you have been following this rule strictly in your previous posts, I can't help but wonder why you didn't in this particular post. Is it possible that both are valid or was this simply a minor oversight of yours? Consider

My understanding is that both are valid and are just stylistics and therefore the only rule that applies is that within the same document one style be used consistently.

A similar stylistic convention is superscripts after vs before punctuation, e.g.
Bloggs says X.[1][2][3] versus Bloggs says X[1][2][3].

There are style manuals for various domains and publications, e.g. APA Style, and in these cases there is a right and wrong style, but outside of these cases it is just aesthetics. For example, (IIRC) APA Style doesn't like post-modern and advises instead postmodern because the construction postmodern is common; APA Style advises the use of a hyphen only where the construction is uncommon or likely to lead to confusion. That isn't a rule of English, either construction is valid, it's just a stylistic convention.
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29-01-2014, 02:49 AM
RE: Nothing makes sense
(29-01-2014 02:31 AM)Phil Hill Wrote:  Definition has nothing to do with it. Did you learn that at Google University? Here is a small example. Go outdoors and pick up one rock in your right hand and another one in your left hand. Now go inside and let go of each rock so they fall on your kitchen table. How many rocks do you see or do you see a definition? Tautology my ass.

It appears you are thinking with your ass.

In base 2 1+1=10

So in your rock example I will have 10 rocks on the kitchen table.

Humans invented base 10 numeration and the Arab numerals and 1+1=2 only because we have decided that the glyphs that comprise '1+1' mean the same thing as '2'. The glyph '1' means one because we have decided that is what it means. '1' is an arbitrary glyph, it is entirely possible to replace '1' with '*'.

You are conflating the natural numbers in the abstract with the glyphs used to denote them.

All mathematical expressions are tautologies:

2^2 = 4 is a tautology
SQRT(9) = 3 is a tautology

These are structurally the the same as

Bachelor = Unmarried Man
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29-01-2014, 02:53 AM
RE: Nothing makes sense
(29-01-2014 02:36 AM)Chippy Wrote:  My understanding is that both are valid and are just stylistics and therefore the only rule that applies is that within the same document one style be used consistently.

A similar stylistic convention is superscripts after vs before punctuation, e.g.
Bloggs says X.[1][2][3] versus Bloggs says X[1][2][3].

There are style manuals for various domains and publications, e.g. APA Style, and in these cases there is a right and wrong style, but outside of these cases it is just aesthetics. For example, (IIRC) APA Style doesn't like post-modern and advises instead postmodern because the construction postmodern is common; APA Style advises the use of a hyphen only where the construction is uncommon or likely to lead to confusion. That isn't a rule of English, either construction is valid, it's just a stylistic convention.
Thanks for the comprehensive answer. Thumbsup

I find the style that includes punctuation marks inside the quotes far more appealing from an aesthetic point of view, so I think I'll go with that one.

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29-01-2014, 02:54 AM
Re: RE: Nothing makes sense
(29-01-2014 02:49 AM)Chippy Wrote:  
(29-01-2014 02:31 AM)Phil Hill Wrote:  Definition has nothing to do with it. Did you learn that at Google University? Here is a small example. Go outdoors and pick up one rock in your right hand and another one in your left hand. Now go inside and let go of each rock so they fall on your kitchen table. How many rocks do you see or do you see a definition? Tautology my ass.

It appears you are thinking with your ass.

In base 2 1+1=10

So in your rock example I will have 10 rocks on the kitchen table.

Humans invented base 10 numeration and the Arab numerals and 1+1=2 only because we have decided that the glyphs that comprise '1+1' mean the same thing as '2'. The glyph '1' means one because we have decided that is what it means. '1' is an arbitrary glyph, it is entirely possible to replace '1' with '*'.

You are conflating the natural numbers in the abstract with the glyphs used to denote them.

All mathematical expressions are tautologies:

2^2 = 4 is a tautology
SQRT(9) = 3 is a tautology

These are structurally the the same as

Bachelor = Unmarried Man

No asshole, picking up one rock is one rock. No numeric system was mentioned. Maybe if I had said single rock in each hand you would have used your brain.

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29-01-2014, 03:03 AM
RE: Nothing makes sense
(29-01-2014 02:54 AM)Phil Hill Wrote:  No asshole, picking up one rock is one rock. No numeric system was mentioned.

Given that 1+1=2 assumes base 10 numeration and Arabic numerals your rock example is entirely irrelevant.

'1' is an arbitrary glyph
'+' is an arbitrary glyph
'=' is an arbitrary glyph
'2' is an arbitrary glyph

No one is disputing that if you had one rock and you picked up another rock you would have two rocks, you stupid loudmouth American.

'1+2=2' is true only by virtue of the meanings that have been assigned to the individual glyphs that comprise it.

Mathematical equations have the property of equality because they express the same quantity (or variable) on both sides of the equation, i.e. they are tautologies.

The equation '1+1=2' means absolutely nothing to someone that has not been taught what it means. '1+1=2' has no intrinsic meaning.
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