Notice Regarding Changes in Forum Management
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09-11-2014, 01:20 PM
RE: Notice Regarding Changes in Forum Management
(09-11-2014 01:08 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(09-11-2014 12:56 PM)Anjele Wrote:  You must be special, I can't see it either.

So I've been told. For some reason it's never sounded like a compliment. Tongue

I didn't mean 'that' kind of special. Dodgy

Wait...maybe I did. Angel

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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09-11-2014, 01:25 PM
RE: Notice Regarding Changes in Forum Management
Girly, you'll always be special in my book. And not just short-bus-special.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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09-11-2014, 01:46 PM
RE: Notice Regarding Changes in Forum Management
(09-11-2014 12:03 AM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  Why would even be able to half? Stop now what head through window, no more no.

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09-11-2014, 01:53 PM
RE: Notice Regarding Changes in Forum Management
(09-11-2014 01:25 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Girly, you'll always be special in my book. And not just short-bus-special.

Aw shucks you big galoot. Blush




#sigh
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09-11-2014, 02:49 PM (This post was last modified: 09-11-2014 02:53 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Notice Regarding Changes in Forum Management
Girly's been here long enough to observe all those who have wielded the BanHammer and he who wielded it best was he who wanted it least.

#sigh
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09-11-2014, 03:24 PM
RE: Notice Regarding Changes in Forum Management
(08-11-2014 08:53 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Dearest forum members,

As you know, there's been some changes, namely me stepping into the admin seat. This was prompted by a number of emails sent to Seth regarding the forum and its alleged mis-management. As always, Seth has many other responsibilities and can't take on this forum as yet another. Therefore, as always, he's accommodated this community by providing the forum, so long as the management of the forum is not his responsibility. After some discussion, Seth and I concluded that the forum members had somehow forgotten that this place is not some piece of land we all stumbled upon, and must now govern together as a sovereign nation. That's not was this forum is, nor was it ever. This is a part of a website, paid for by TheThinkingAtheist and its sponsors. Seth Andrews has asked me to run the forum how I see fit.

Yes, Seth is aware that I DO NOT intend to run the forum like a democracy. He is on board with how I plan to do things.

Let me take this opportunity to remind you...if you have a problem with the forum DO NOT EMAIL SETH. I know of at least a few who will anyways, but rest assured, Seth and I are on the same page.

Now before you all run for cover, no this isn't some hostile takeover. I'm actually a pretty nice guy, and genuinely care about this forum and its members. In fact, you'll likely find the forum isn't really any different than before, save for a few more "judgement calls" made, and a little less patience for shenanigans. I think for 90% of you, that will be a positive change.

From this point forward, supermods and myself will make any decisions with regard the the forum, it's rules, and how they are enforced. This isn't because anyone was incompetent, it's simply a matter of FAR to many cooks in a very small kitchen. The existing Supermods will stay where they are, and the next few weeks will determine if the existing team meshes well, or if we need to make adjustments.

Moderators are still a valuable part of the team, and for now we will also keep the mods who wish to remain. Again, the coming weeks will determine how everyone fits into their new role. We are drafting a better explination of the role our mods play so that both they, and the forum members, can better understand what they do and why their role is so important here.

Veterans will be changed back to regular members, and the veteran section will be closed, but remain open to viewing by the former veterans.

I have always been an advocate of free speech. However, I also accept that a place like this has rules, and whether I like them or not, if I wish to remain, I must abide by them. I'm not a fan of rules, and many of you remember that from long ago, before I even got to wear a special color. So I hope to keep rules to a minimum. But I also have a job to do, and that will require some forum restrictions. These changes, again, will show up in the coming weeks.

Maybe a few less trolls, and a few more old fashioned warnings of "don't be a dick". But other than that, I hope to see the forum discussions continue as they always have. That is, for the most part, unmoderated or restricted.


Stark Raving
Forum Administrator

So what you are saying is, we are returning from whence we came?

I'm good with that.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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10-11-2014, 05:59 PM (This post was last modified: 10-11-2014 06:04 PM by Atothetheist.)
RE: Notice Regarding Changes in Forum Management
Hey guys (For those interested, I got hog-tied by a southern girl and 'forced' to return).

Here are my opinions, and bare with me, because I've spent the last five hours thinking about the future of this forum, or rather whether or not this system (Stark's) is a good one.

Here is my opinion: Yes. It is the best system for managing THIS forum. However, that is merely my opinion, and I know that some people don't agree with me.

Here is my response to them (and to those that follow the 'If you don't like it, leave' mentality): Voice your opinions, but before you do, consider the following: Are you bitching just to bitch, or are you complaining because you genuinely feel like there is a legitimate problem and you wish it corrected?

If you are the former, I highly encourage you to either become the latter, deal with it, or kindly get the fuck out. Bitching just to bitch WILL NOT get you anywhere. It will not help, and if you believe that incessantly bitching about it will let you have your way , you are highly encouraged by me to get the fuck out even more. I, and I am sure the admin, does not have the time, nor the inclination to listen to your petty, unimportant bleetings about an issue that you have offered no solutions to, or reasons behind your objections.

(I will talk about a certain strategy these 'children' have used, and have advocated the use of later in this post).

If you're are the latter, then I highly encourage you to speak out, to seek improvement for a wrong you have observed. But, give us, the collective, reasons (as logically a possible) as to WHY this is a PROBLEM, and be considerate and be reasonable, and if you feel like there is no use arguing about it, then do what you feel you need to (If that means leaving, leave. If that means dealing with it, deal with it). I respect those that go against authority when the leadership has done a wrong. Opposition and the ability of free expression is, and I will probably always believe this, essential for accurate judgement on whether a system works or fails.

As awesome as Stark is, I do not believe he is infallible (Notice, I did not say he was incompetent in anyway), and even the best leaders can commit a wrong under the guise of pursuing the right. I believe it is in EVERYBODY'S best interest to judge (notice I DID NOT say hound) the actions of leadership, rather than have an unquestioning populace that does what it is told, simply because the leader thinks they know better.

And Stark, I believe you will have absolutely no problem with this, but I urge those that may come after to NOT discourage others from voicing their disagreements, or to completely disregard them simply because you are the one in power, or have the power of discretion. And do not chase those that genuinely want to see the forum improve away, or lump them within the same group as those that just want to bitch. They are distinct and one deserves to be heard out.

Now, Stark made a mention of not emailing Seth about the forum, and I completely agree. Seth is not an active member, nor is he always informed about the daily goings on. He is, in my opinion, not qualified to make any good decisions (thats not to say that he doesn't make them), nor is it a good idea to email him. Stark is in charge, he is the one that goes on here daily to run the damn place, have the fucking balls to email him about the issue. If you genuinely believe you are right, then you shouldn't fear the admin disagreeing with you. You shouldn't need to bypass the chain of command. When the pedo situation was a thing, and Seth intervened, I liked it to spoiled children who didn't get their way running off to tattle to 'Daddy.' It was absolutely disgusting, and completely unnecessary.

Ferdinand said it best in response to FSM_Scot:
(09-11-2014 11:14 AM)Ferdinand Wrote:  
(09-11-2014 10:49 AM)FSM_scot Wrote:  Well if you have an issue with the way the forum is being run then clearly the best option is to go direct to the sites owner Seth. Since this whole thing was kicked off by issues with the forum team in the first place. And getting Seth involved seems to be the only way to get anything done regarding the way the forum is run. Its worked twice now.

Seth gave us this place as a place to discuss our beliefs, lack of beliefs, and then some; not so we can bitch and piss everywhere, and then email him bitching and pissing more. Most of the people on this site are intelligent adults who should be able to handle things themselves when certain problems materialize. Seth put Stark in charge when this place first hit it off because he obviously doesn't have time to look over this place himself. He's a busy guy, I assume. I mean, look at this bustling foundation he's created. He trusted Stark in the very beginning and he trusts Stark now because he simply can't handle the piss and shit that occasionally goes down here. So he sends his best man, his Knight in Herb Coloured Armor, to do it for him. Pretty sure that's why Stark included the statement about not emailing Seth. Seth doesn't have much time for it AND it makes everyone here look like children who can't follow the forum big man's rules: that person being Stark. It makes us look like we have no respect for benevolent authority. We're not babies here. We're adults. We shouldn't have to run to the "Almighty Creator" when shit hit the fans. In the end, however, we do have someone dependable and fair that we can count on. Someone with an established personality with the community. Can't see why anyone would be unhappy with that.

I underlined, italicized, and bolded the very poignant and brilliant parts of that post so that it could have more impact. She is EXACTLY right. If we keep running to Seth every time we have a problem, and he keeps having to fix it for us, then we MUST be incapable of finding the solution ourselves. Or, the person who wrote is completely sure that they are in the right, and that others are too stupid to understand their position, so they buck the system.

I'd like to believe we are more than fucking capable of finding the solution to the problems ourselves, that we are more than babies crying to daddy to fix it FOR US.

(09-11-2014 11:19 AM)FSM_scot Wrote:  I am well aware of the history of the forum Ferdi. My point is that for the two biggest changes to the way the forum is run took Seth being contacted and stepping in in some way, because the FT has always been more concerned about preserving some long dead idealised vision of what the forum used to be rather than waking up and seeing what its become.

Correct me if I am wrong, but in the pedo-situation weren't YOU the one that refused to even help solve the situation? Calling Seth to sort it out wouldn't have been needed (And I argue that it wasn't needed at all) if the forum team was working together to solve the problem. The incompetence was not with all of the FT, but rather with a select few that were ESSENTIAL in order for a solution to be implemented. And don't make it seem like the rest weren't doing shit, they were coming up with solutions that have, you guessed it, been implemented eventually. All it takes is one broken gear for the system to stop working. And if that gear worked, or did something other than completely divorce themselves from the situation, yet still bitch about it, maybe we would have reached a solution without Seth intervening.

(09-11-2014 11:22 AM)Ferdinand Wrote:  
(09-11-2014 11:19 AM)FSM_scot Wrote:  I am well aware of the history of the forum Ferdi. My point is that for the two biggest changes to the way the forum is run took Seth being contacted and stepping because the FT has always been more concerned about preserving some long dead idealised vision of what the forum used to be rather than waking up and seeing what its become.

You're right there. That's something the forum team needs to grow out of, and maybe the forum team we have now, or future team members, will grow out of that. We're not children, we're adults. Sometimes change is needed and we can't be too scared to do something that would make a difference.

This. So much this. Way to be mature about it, unlike me. I was just passive-aggressive as shit.

(09-11-2014 11:26 AM)Ferdinand Wrote:  
(09-11-2014 11:20 AM)Anjele Wrote:  I doubt that anyone will feel the need to turn to Seth with Stark in charge.

Honestly though that's a disappointing statement because it shows a lot of us have lack of respect for authority. It makes us sound like children to say we would listen to one benevolent, respected member over another member who is also benevolent, respected, known and considerate.
I don't respect authority, I respect the person in authority (Shout out to my homie, Stark.)

Umm, feel free to tear me a new asshole, fellas.

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10-11-2014, 06:48 PM
RE: Notice Regarding Changes in Forum Management
Aww. Now I'll never get the chance to be special. *sniffle* Nice changes though. *thumbs up*
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10-11-2014, 07:20 PM
RE: Notice Regarding Changes in Forum Management
(10-11-2014 05:59 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Correct me if I am wrong, but in the pedo-situation weren't YOU the one that refused to even help solve the situation? Calling Seth to sort it out wouldn't have been needed (And I argue that it wasn't needed at all) if the forum team was working together to solve the problem. The incompetence was not with all of the FT, but rather with a select few that were ESSENTIAL in order for a solution to be implemented. And don't make it seem like the rest weren't doing shit, they were coming up with solutions that have, you guessed it, been implemented eventually. All it takes is one broken gear for the system to stop working. And if that gear worked, or did something other than completely divorce themselves from the situation, yet still bitch about it, maybe we would have reached a solution without Seth intervening.

You see the problem with what you just said was that the forum team did what it tends to do and that is sit on its arse twidling its thumbs and saying "i see nothing wrong here as it doesn't affect me directly". I did try to get things done but as me and Hughsie had very different opinions on how to run things we could never get anything done.

And as for trying to resolve it without any outside intervention, I actually sent those members a friendly pm explaining the feeling on the forum and that they would not not achieve what they set out to do here and that moving on would be the best for everyone, as their presence here only reopened old wounds of a disturbingly large number of members who suffered abuse in the past. The response was basically "I hear what you are saying but I only care what Hughsie thinks on the matter"

A2 you only saw a fraction of a fraction of went on. It took Seths involvement to get anything done because it sure as hell wasn't being sorted by the FT.

The fact that he had to get involved twice shows just how incompetent the forum team is when it comes to sorting any kind of trouble on the forum. Hell the FT did what it always does i.e next to nothing when it came to a member actually being stalked not just online but irl and it took the actions of the mods of another forum to put a stop to it. The FT has needed a massive overhaul since even before I was admin.

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10-11-2014, 07:32 PM
RE: Notice Regarding Changes in Forum Management
Ok, let's be cool. FSM makes a very good point. I shouldn't have put it the way I did, and he is totally right to call me on it. I guess if someone feels they need to go over my head, who am I to tell them they can't?

Put it this way....Seth doesn't want to deal with this forum. If you think going to the person who DOESN'T want to work on forum issues with a forum issue is going to accomplish anything, you should start working on your logic. I'm the guy Seth trusts, and I'm the guy who wants to be a part of the forum. You do the math.

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