Nurse Bullied And Arrested By Cop On A Power Trip
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10-09-2017, 12:52 PM
RE: Nurse Bullied And Arrested By Cop On A Power Trip
(06-09-2017 08:51 PM)ImFred Wrote:  Thumps

It's not a personal defect to say that the moral outrage here is not appropriately proportional when compared to all the injustices and tragedies we're barraged with. Most feel that's the wrong way to look at it but whatever.

And if my opinion sways it sways. I might feel one way then feel another. So what.

Yeah, we see things differently. Just because this isn't death-by-cop doesn't mean it isn't important. That also doesn't mean I'm calling you immoral.

I'm happy the department's chief was so unequivocal in criticizing his cop's behavior.
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10-09-2017, 01:03 PM
RE: Nurse Bullied And Arrested By Cop On A Power Trip
(10-09-2017 06:31 AM)ImFred Wrote:  My suspicion is that intellectually people think the police should have authority and be able to assert power over others (because if you don't why would police even exist) but when people see this power displayed they reject it emotionally.

Nah. What I want to see is a person who wields a deadly weapon as part of his job maintaining order operate with better judgement.
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10-09-2017, 01:14 PM
RE: Nurse Bullied And Arrested By Cop On A Power Trip
(10-09-2017 06:31 AM)ImFred Wrote:  My suspicion is that intellectually people think the police should have authority and be able to assert power over others (because if you don't why would police even exist) but when people see this power displayed they reject it emotionally.

Your suspicion says a lot about you and little about "people".

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10-09-2017, 01:14 PM (This post was last modified: 10-09-2017 01:20 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Nurse Bullied And Arrested By Cop On A Power Trip
(10-09-2017 06:31 AM)ImFred Wrote:  My suspicion is that intellectually people think the police should have authority and be able to assert power over others (because if you don't why would police even exist) but when people see this power displayed they reject it emotionally.

Here's how I see it, I mean all intellectually and shit.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

#sigh
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10-09-2017, 01:18 PM
RE: Nurse Bullied And Arrested By Cop On A Power Trip
(10-09-2017 01:14 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 06:31 AM)ImFred Wrote:  My suspicion is that intellectually people think the police should have authority and be able to assert power over others (because if you don't why would police even exist) but when people see this power displayed they reject it emotionally.

Here's I see it, I mean all intellectually and shit.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

That sounds familiar. Consider
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10-09-2017, 01:20 PM
RE: Nurse Bullied And Arrested By Cop On A Power Trip
(10-09-2017 04:59 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Long story short, the cops had good faith probable cause to detain the nurse.

I somewhat disagree...I get the point but it's tenuous.

There was no warrant, so she wasn't interfering with that. The nurse showed him the memo from the police chief that stated the circumstances they would be allowed to take blood. The patient didn't meet any of those requirements.

He forcibly didn't simply detain her so he could get the blood from someone else, he would have had to "detained" the whole hospital.

The good faith probable cause is really just a stopgap to protect the police. it's been described as a flaw in the 4th Amendment. Usually it's applied to those who interfere with a warrant being executed, but it can also be interpreted to limit exposure. All the cop (or anyone in law enforcement) has to say they were working on good faith that their information was accurate. But he was shown the evidence that his information was completely wrong and he chose to dismiss it (it was the piece of paper he ripped from her hand and wadded up).

I think it's a bullshit argument myself but it can be loosely applied to minimize the cop's wrongdoing and overreaching.


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And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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10-09-2017, 09:18 PM
RE: Nurse Bullied And Arrested By Cop On A Power Trip
(10-09-2017 01:20 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 04:59 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Long story short, the cops had good faith probable cause to detain the nurse.

I somewhat disagree...I get the point but it's tenuous.

There was no warrant, so she wasn't interfering with that. The nurse showed him the memo from the police chief that stated the circumstances they would be allowed to take blood. The patient didn't meet any of those requirements.

He forcibly didn't simply detain her so he could get the blood from someone else, he would have had to "detained" the whole hospital.

The good faith probable cause is really just a stopgap to protect the police. it's been described as a flaw in the 4th Amendment. Usually it's applied to those who interfere with a warrant being executed, but it can also be interpreted to limit exposure. All the cop (or anyone in law enforcement) has to say they were working on good faith that their information was accurate. But he was shown the evidence that his information was completely wrong and he chose to dismiss it (it was the piece of paper he ripped from her hand and wadded up).

I think it's a bullshit argument myself but it can be loosely applied to minimize the cop's wrongdoing and overreaching.

I was just conveying the opinion of a Harvard Law educated lawyer. Undecided

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10-09-2017, 09:55 PM
RE: Nurse Bullied And Arrested By Cop On A Power Trip
(10-09-2017 04:59 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Okay, so they covered this on the Opening Arguments law podcast.

Long story short, the cops had good faith probable cause to detain the nurse. The manner in which he detained her certainly crossed the line. The law was on the nurse's side, a Supreme Court decision had ruled on this only a few years ago, so she was not obliged to draw blood without consent. So she won't have a case specifically for being illegally jailed, as she was released without charges within 24 hours. As for how she was handled, that's another matter entirely.

But yeah, in the US at least, you cannot have your blood drawn without your consent.

I don't think a cops ignorance of the law is "probable cause" or at the very least shouldn't be. That's just opening the gate to abuse IMO.


Also, the outrage isn't so much that she got arrested to begin with (because that was a mistake by the cop not knowing the law.), the outrage is in the manner of which she got arrested. The fact that she shouldn't have been arrested in the first place just compounds the situation.

The simple truth is that that cop should be fired (if he hasn't been already) not because he arrested her (because mistakes happen) but because of the manner in which he did it. Perhaps even issued with an assault charge.

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11-09-2017, 08:31 AM
RE: Nurse Bullied And Arrested By Cop On A Power Trip
(10-09-2017 09:55 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(10-09-2017 04:59 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Okay, so they covered this on the Opening Arguments law podcast.

Long story short, the cops had good faith probable cause to detain the nurse. The manner in which he detained her certainly crossed the line. The law was on the nurse's side, a Supreme Court decision had ruled on this only a few years ago, so she was not obliged to draw blood without consent. So she won't have a case specifically for being illegally jailed, as she was released without charges within 24 hours. As for how she was handled, that's another matter entirely.

But yeah, in the US at least, you cannot have your blood drawn without your consent.

I don't think a cops ignorance of the law is "probable cause" or at the very least shouldn't be. That's just opening the gate to abuse IMO.


Also, the outrage isn't so much that she got arrested to begin with (because that was a mistake by the cop not knowing the law.), the outrage is in the manner of which she got arrested. The fact that she shouldn't have been arrested in the first place just compounds the situation.

The simple truth is that that cop should be fired (if he hasn't been already) not because he arrested her (because mistakes happen) but because of the manner in which he did it. Perhaps even issued with an assault charge.

Even if he was ignorant of the law, he was being told by several people what the law was in regards to the situation. So he was informed and still chose to arrested the nurse. I feel no sympathy for him at all.
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11-09-2017, 09:41 AM
RE: Nurse Bullied And Arrested By Cop On A Power Trip
(10-09-2017 09:31 AM)ImFred Wrote:  Maybe putting our pain in small things is a coping mechanism. Our hearts would be crushed if we didn't cherry pick what we agonize over. What about if we know what happened but there's no video? None of us has enough empathy to go around. Is it the story or does it fill a need?

You are commiting the fallacy of assuming that empathizing with the nurse's situation means that one is okay with or ignorant of other injustices.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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