OBI-WAN KANOBI
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25-11-2014, 09:43 AM
RE: OBI-WAN KANOBI
(25-11-2014 12:03 AM)doniston Wrote:  “You need to demonstrate the existence of a begator before you can ask that.”

That is 'FLAT WRONG” and precisely the same as telling a theist that they must prove their god is real before he or she can talk about their God. That was what I objected to I have been very open to discuss any and all of my beliefs and opinions but this is asking for the impossible.

That is not flat wrong you ass, that is a completely reasonable expectation of a person when they start spouting off made up bullshit. You are putting your cart before your horse and trying to attribute properties to a thing which you have not provided any reason to believe exists. People can talk about their belief and faith in a god till they are blue in the face but the second, the absolute second they attribute to it any property, action, or quality then yes they DO have prove it's existence first. And so do you cupcake.

If you have no evidence of a things existence then you have no evidence of it's properties and thus can not posit anything about it at all. Any such attempts are just claims, pulled out of your ass, and we will Hitchen's Razor that shit right in front of you.
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
That's the response I have to nearly everything you have said so far. I don't care if you make shit up cause you like it, but if you want it to seem reasonable it needs reasons. "I personally think" is not a fucking reason.

If it's impossible to prove that the "begator" exists then it's impossible to prove it's qualities and properties so any "conversation" on the topic is just you wanking off for kicks and it's boring and pedestrian. We have more sophisticated theists here on a daily basis.

Until you can demonstrate your claims it's entirely fair and rational for us to dismiss them entirely as unfounded and without real world value. It's not up to us to entertain every crack pot, pseudo-science claim just cause some random asshole on the internet with a poor science education happens to really really like it.

The fact you don't think you have a burden of proof, does not change the fact that you do. Drinking Beverage

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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25-11-2014, 10:14 AM
To the nonsense maker
AS PROMISED the continuing saga

Quote : In my beliefs, when a person passes on, it is only the life force that moves (perhaps called the soul) and if undestroyed by his or her own doubts, (be like a child to enter into the kingdom of God)“The force”, which according to my belief, is a secondary area of existence wherein these life forces co- mingle yet because they are an intelligence, can perceive any manner of comfort or privilege of which they can conceive ( heaven) In your dreams, or nightmares you can conceive almost anything) Scientifically this might be what is considered alternate existences (string theory).
Why is it that everything you comment on, you turn upside down? For instance:
Quote:So death is only the soul leaving the body?,
where did you get that. No, the soul leaves the body BECAUSE of death, it doesn't die because the soul leaves the body.
Quote: How about traumatic injury? If death is caused by the soul leaving how is that tied to our biochemistry? [/quote[ these are total misnomers. And don't qualify
[quote] How is the soul destroyed in by our doubts? Does my soul regenerate if I become certain about something that isn't "The Force?" If doubts destroy the soul doesn't that mean that somebody with doubts is walking around without a soul and should, by your estimation be dead?
(Kindly remember, these are my opinions and beliefs, they are not cast in stone)
I believe the soul (note, I also referred to it as mentality) might suffer a breakdown as a result of trauma ( commonly referred to as guilt, and therefore might end up in a never never land which the religious refer to as purgatory. As for the walking dead, (no, no zombies) the soul remains a part of the body until death, even when ridden with guilt. Now is that childish enough for you? Regeneration??? that's nonsense
.
Quote: How do you demonstrate that the soul exists?
I remember, many years ago a study was made th t claimed that the soul has a very infinitesimal weight, which was measurable. ( Of course I can't prove it: I just remember it) In the alternative, If you ever saw someone die, you would know that something leaves their body, (the life spark)
Quote: How are we not already a part of the force?
I think we are. I have said many many times that While I believe Christ was real, and a martyr. That he was not a god, and that we, you and I are just a much God, as he, that we are all part of God (in my estimation, Nature)
Quote:How does any soul interact with the body? What does it even mean when a soul leaves a body? Does it interact with space and matter? Is the soul connection 1:1? So is there a soul leg attached to my leg? If not; does a soul interact with only the matter associated with my brain?
At what point is a soul brain not a soul brain?
In my opinion these questions are quite idiotic, but apparently with you. Anything goes as long as you can create a stir. Therefore reluctantly, I will answer them.
1. it's part of the living body.
2. I have already answered that.
3. I have no idea what that means.
4. are you suggesting that one soul can be a part of two bodies??? redicules
5. what's a soul leg???
6. I would assume so, while the body is alive
7. what is a sol brain? If you are speaking of a trnsferred mentality, and to which I have referred, it is neither a brain or a soul brain. That is even more redicules.

"I don't Debate, I Discuss" I offer my opinions, and listen to yours, I will not require proof of opinions, but I may ask for clarification or state that I reject your position and why, & if asked, I will further clarify mine --- However, I reject any requirement that I PROVE my position is accurate and proper.
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25-11-2014, 10:46 AM
RE: OBI-WAN KANOBI
(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  (Kindly remember, these are my opinions and beliefs, they are not cast in stone)

Not cast in stone is one thing but as far as anybody can tell your opinions aren't even cast in carbon aerogel

(I figured there should be SOMETHING of value in this thread)

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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25-11-2014, 11:12 AM
RE: OBI-WAN KANOBI
(25-11-2014 10:46 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  (Kindly remember, these are my opinions and beliefs, they are not cast in stone)

Not cast in stone is one thing but as far as anybody can tell your opinions aren't even cast in carbon aerogel

(I figured there should be SOMETHING of value in this thread)

"I don't Debate, I Discuss" I offer my opinions, and listen to yours, I will not require proof of opinions, but I may ask for clarification or state that I reject your position and why, & if asked, I will further clarify mine --- However, I reject any requirement that I PROVE my position is accurate and proper.
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25-11-2014, 11:14 AM (This post was last modified: 25-11-2014 11:29 AM by doniston.)
RE: OBI-WAN KANOBI

"I don't Debate, I Discuss" I offer my opinions, and listen to yours, I will not require proof of opinions, but I may ask for clarification or state that I reject your position and why, & if asked, I will further clarify mine --- However, I reject any requirement that I PROVE my position is accurate and proper.
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25-11-2014, 11:38 AM
RE: OBI-WAN KANOBI
(25-11-2014 10:46 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  (Kindly remember, these are my opinions and beliefs, they are not cast in stone)

Not cast in stone is one thing but as far as anybody can tell your opinions aren't even cast in carbon aerogel

(I figured there should be SOMETHING of value in this thread)
m HMM!! carbon aerogel[/ I didn't know they were intended to be carved in anything, and I have no idea what that is. sorry to boist yur bubble

"I don't Debate, I Discuss" I offer my opinions, and listen to yours, I will not require proof of opinions, but I may ask for clarification or state that I reject your position and why, & if asked, I will further clarify mine --- However, I reject any requirement that I PROVE my position is accurate and proper.
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25-11-2014, 01:01 PM
RE: OBI-WAN KANOBI
(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  saga
You have an over inflated sense of worth when it comes to your made up nonsense and it's value. Textbook Dunning-Kruger.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  Quote : In my beliefs, when a person passes on, it is only the life force that moves (perhaps called the soul)
There is no evidence of a "life force" in the way you are trying to present it.
There is no evidence for a soul in the way you, or any religion, presents it.
There is no evidence that this non-existent thing exists within the body, outside of the body, or can leave or enter the body.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  and if undestroyed by his or her own doubts
There is no evidence that the non-existent soul, if it did exist, can be destroyed by "doubt".
You have provided no explanation or mechanic to justify the belief that this is so.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  “The force”, which according to my belief, is a secondary area of existence wherein these life forces co- mingle
There is no evidence that "the force" as you present it exists.
There is no evidence that there are" secondary areas of existence". Nor do you supply an explanation or mechanic to justify this belief.
There is no evidence that non-existent "life forces" can commingle with other non-existent life forces. You provide no explanation or mechanic as to how this is even possible, let alone probable.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  yet because they are an intelligence, can perceive any manner of comfort or privilege of which they can conceive ( heaven)
Intelligence is an emergent property of the brain and there is no evidence that it can exist outside the brain. you provide no explanation or evidence that this is not the case.
There is no evidence that a non-biologically locked intelligence exists, can exist, or that it can perceive anything at all.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  In your dreams, or nightmares you can conceive almost anything)
This is factually untrue, and valueless as a statement. I can think of multiple things you can not conceive of right now.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  Scientifically this might be what is considered alternate existences (string theory).
There is nothing even remotely scientific about what you have said thus far.
There is no evidence that anything you have said has anything to do with string theory and you have provided no mechanic or evidence to show otherwise. Your knowledge of quantum mechanics has already been shown to be horrible, you are unqualified to make these claims.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  No, the soul leaves the body BECAUSE of death, it doesn't die because the soul leaves the body.
There is no evidence that a soul exists or that it does, or is capable of, leaving the body.


(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  I believe the soul (note, I also referred to it as mentality)
There is no evidence, and thus no reason to believe, the "soul" as you present it has anything to do with the mind or intellect. You have failed to demonstrate a mechanic by which they are related.


(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  might suffer a breakdown as a result of trauma ( commonly referred to as guilt, and therefore might end up in a never never land which the religious refer to as purgatory.
There is no evidence that a soul exists or that it can be damaged by guilt, nor have you offered any explanation as to how that is possible.
There is no evidence that any place like purgatory exists.
You also make the mistake of saying religious in a broad way when the VAST majority of religions don't have a concept of purgatory.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  the soul remains a part of the body until death, even when ridden with guilt.
There is no evidence that soul is a part of anything let alone that it can be damaged by guilt, or that it remains housed in a body.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  Now is that childish enough for you?
yes what you have said thus far is extremely childish and sounds more like wish fulfillment and personal delusion.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  Regeneration??? that's nonsense
What evidence did you use to come to the conclusion that your beliefs are not nonsense but that that idea is? Or did you pull it out of your ass again?

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  I remember, many years ago a study was made th t claimed that the soul has a very infinitesimal weight, which was measurable. ( Of course I can't prove it: I just remember it)
You are thinking of the "experiment" done by Duncan MacDougall in 1901. It's been thoroughly debunked almost right from the start, as his methods were flawed and he missreported his findings. There is no evidence that the soul weighs anything. More 100 years outta date information from you. Shocking.Drinking Beverage

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  In the alternative, If you ever saw someone die, you would know that something leaves their body, (the life spark)
Ive personally seen many more people die then I would have liked to, frequently up close and personal, and a few in very violent circumstances. There is no evidence that anything "leaves the body" any more then something "leaves" the TV the second you unplug the power.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  I think we are.
There is no evidence that it exists or that we are currently a part of it.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  you and I are just a much God, as he, that we are all part of God (in my estimation, Nature)
You are conflating terms intentionally.
There is no evidence for anything you just said.


(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  In my opinion these questions are quite idiotic
Then they fit right in with your idiotic beliefs. That said they are actually completely reasonable questions to ask a crazy person who holds views with no basis in reality.
(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  1. it's part of the living body.
2. I have already answered that.
3. I have no idea what that means.
4. are you suggesting that one soul can be a part of two bodies??? redicules
5. what's a soul leg???
6. I would assume so, while the body is alive
7. what is a sol brain? If you are speaking of a trnsferred mentality, and to which I have referred, it is neither a brain or a soul brain. That is even more redicules.
1.) No evidence at all.
2.) Answers are grounded in evidence. You have provided no evidence so you have given a baseless response to back up a baseless claim but you have no answered anything.
3.) Does the soul while in the body or exiting the body interact with other matter or space? This was an extremely basic question.
4.) What evidence did you utilize to come to the conclusion that this was ridiculous and your bullshit was not. Display this standard of measurement.
6.) Based on what evidence do you basis this assertion?
7.)What evidence did you utilize to come to the conclusion that this was ridiculous and your bullshit was not. Display this standard of measurement.



So now that we have established you have no good reason to believe the things you do lets ask the important question:
WHY do you hold the beliefs and opinions that you do?

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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25-11-2014, 01:08 PM
RE: OBI-WAN KANOBI
(25-11-2014 11:38 AM)doniston Wrote:  sorry to boist yur bubble

You didn't burst my bubble but I think you proved my point.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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25-11-2014, 01:43 PM
more to the idiot
Look dummy, the Gloves are now off since I can say just about anything to you I wish (RULES)

Quote: How did you find out about this? How did they find out about this?

Logic, consideration belief and the knowledge that there had to be something to allow all of this, and it wasn't a little old man.

Second, how did who find out about this? The animals???? how stupid can you be?

Quote: Natural just means "able to be understood by science" supernatural just means "not able to be understood by science." I'm just bringing that up because if it's natural: You can demonstrate it.
I suppose in your measily little mind, that's what it means. Not with me. Try the dictionary

Quote: for your benefit, perhaps I should have said "let Natural forces be with you". would that have suited you better?

Quote:Not really. You haven't thus far shown that any of this exists or is natural.{/quote]
and guess what, I WON'T

[quote,] Were you expecting a livelier discussion around this?
not really, it is about what I expected

Quote:I am also not insisting or even claiming that my opinions are fact. no one will really know until they pass on the next level(if there truly is one)

Quote: Again: How did you come to this conclusion?

already answered.

?Quote:“Old wood” likened my position as a loosely based religion --I agree with him. For all intents & purposes, this IS my religion, and I call it “Scientific Christian Spiritualism”

Quote:A) If you are using a flawed understanding of scientific research, not applying rigor to your ideas and not attempting to demonstrate or experiment with it's conclusions then you can't call it science.
B) If you don't believe in Jesus as a divine figure and don't believe in a god similar to the one he described then you're not any variation of christian.
C) Anything defined as "spiritualism" is a religion by default. There's no "for all intents and purposes" about it.

A, your opinion, I can call it anything I like, and regarding what I have gone through to gain this understanding, I call it science
B I never said I was, what I said is that I have Christian values.
C. So, I have also said that mine is a form of religion:

Perhaps after reading this you will agree the name is fitting. It is based on my knowledge of ,experience with, and interpretations of scientific developments, Christian principles, and partial recognition of Ghosts and spirits.

Genesis: As I read it, Genesis and evolutionary science coincide, except for the definition of time, I believe the word day in the Bible could well mean era or age.

[
Quote:And even then you're directly contradicting yourself: You said you don't believe in active god figure. The genisis account describes an active god figure.
Look idiot, you keep assuming I said things I didn't say. I said that I think qenesis coincides with Evolution, I did not say I believed what Genesis states, “I DON'T” tho I do believe that in general it coincides with evolution.
Why don't you get something straight for a change.
As examples, in my younger years I knew a Brethren in Christ Minister who believed that they all meant days, (except the first which was millions of years long.)
Quote:That's retarded forexactly the same reason.
I agree it's silly, but for what “Same reason” ? Make yourself clear.

"I don't Debate, I Discuss" I offer my opinions, and listen to yours, I will not require proof of opinions, but I may ask for clarification or state that I reject your position and why, & if asked, I will further clarify mine --- However, I reject any requirement that I PROVE my position is accurate and proper.
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25-11-2014, 01:51 PM
RE: OBI-WAN KANOBI
(25-11-2014 01:01 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  saga
You have an over inflated sense of worth when it comes to your made up nonsense and it's value. Textbook Dunning-Kruger.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  Quote : In my beliefs, when a person passes on, it is only the life force that moves (perhaps called the soul)
There is no evidence of a "life force" in the way you are trying to present it.
There is no evidence for a soul in the way you, or any religion, presents it.
There is no evidence that this non-existent thing exists within the body, outside of the body, or can leave or enter the body.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  and if undestroyed by his or her own doubts
There is no evidence that the non-existent soul, if it did exist, can be destroyed by "doubt".
You have provided no explanation or mechanic to justify the belief that this is so.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  “The force”, which according to my belief, is a secondary area of existence wherein these life forces co- mingle
There is no evidence that "the force" as you present it exists.
There is no evidence that there are" secondary areas of existence". Nor do you supply an explanation or mechanic to justify this belief.
There is no evidence that non-existent "life forces" can commingle with other non-existent life forces. You provide no explanation or mechanic as to how this is even possible, let alone probable.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  yet because they are an intelligence, can perceive any manner of comfort or privilege of which they can conceive ( heaven)
Intelligence is an emergent property of the brain and there is no evidence that it can exist outside the brain. you provide no explanation or evidence that this is not the case.
There is no evidence that a non-biologically locked intelligence exists, can exist, or that it can perceive anything at all.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  In your dreams, or nightmares you can conceive almost anything)
This is factually untrue, and valueless as a statement. I can think of multiple things you can not conceive of right now.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  Scientifically this might be what is considered alternate existences (string theory).
There is nothing even remotely scientific about what you have said thus far.
There is no evidence that anything you have said has anything to do with string theory and you have provided no mechanic or evidence to show otherwise. Your knowledge of quantum mechanics has already been shown to be horrible, you are unqualified to make these claims.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  No, the soul leaves the body BECAUSE of death, it doesn't die because the soul leaves the body.
There is no evidence that a soul exists or that it does, or is capable of, leaving the body.


(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  I believe the soul (note, I also referred to it as mentality)
There is no evidence, and thus no reason to believe, the "soul" as you present it has anything to do with the mind or intellect. You have failed to demonstrate a mechanic by which they are related.


(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  might suffer a breakdown as a result of trauma ( commonly referred to as guilt, and therefore might end up in a never never land which the religious refer to as purgatory.
There is no evidence that a soul exists or that it can be damaged by guilt, nor have you offered any explanation as to how that is possible.
There is no evidence that any place like purgatory exists.
You also make the mistake of saying religious in a broad way when the VAST majority of religions don't have a concept of purgatory.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  the soul remains a part of the body until death, even when ridden with guilt.
There is no evidence that soul is a part of anything let alone that it can be damaged by guilt, or that it remains housed in a body.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  Now is that childish enough for you?
yes what you have said thus far is extremely childish and sounds more like wish fulfillment and personal delusion.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  Regeneration??? that's nonsense
What evidence did you use to come to the conclusion that your beliefs are not nonsense but that that idea is? Or did you pull it out of your ass again?

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  I remember, many years ago a study was made th t claimed that the soul has a very infinitesimal weight, which was measurable. ( Of course I can't prove it: I just remember it)
You are thinking of the "experiment" done by Duncan MacDougall in 1901. It's been thoroughly debunked almost right from the start, as his methods were flawed and he missreported his findings. There is no evidence that the soul weighs anything. More 100 years outta date information from you. Shocking.Drinking Beverage

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  In the alternative, If you ever saw someone die, you would know that something leaves their body, (the life spark)
Ive personally seen many more people die then I would have liked to, frequently up close and personal, and a few in very violent circumstances. There is no evidence that anything "leaves the body" any more then something "leaves" the TV the second you unplug the power.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  I think we are.
There is no evidence that it exists or that we are currently a part of it.

(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  you and I are just a much God, as he, that we are all part of God (in my estimation, Nature)
You are conflating terms intentionally.
There is no evidence for anything you just said.


(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  In my opinion these questions are quite idiotic
Then they fit right in with your idiotic beliefs. That said they are actually completely reasonable questions to ask a crazy person who holds views with no basis in reality.
(25-11-2014 10:14 AM)doniston Wrote:  1. it's part of the living body.
2. I have already answered that.
3. I have no idea what that means.
4. are you suggesting that one soul can be a part of two bodies??? redicules
5. what's a soul leg???
6. I would assume so, while the body is alive
7. what is a sol brain? If you are speaking of a trnsferred mentality, and to which I have referred, it is neither a brain or a soul brain. That is even more redicules.
1.) No evidence at all.
2.) Answers are grounded in evidence. You have provided no evidence so you have given a baseless response to back up a baseless claim but you have no answered anything.
3.) Does the soul while in the body or exiting the body interact with other matter or space? This was an extremely basic question.
4.) What evidence did you utilize to come to the conclusion that this was ridiculous and your bullshit was not. Display this standard of measurement.
6.) Based on what evidence do you basis this assertion?
7.)What evidence did you utilize to come to the conclusion that this was ridiculous and your bullshit was not. Display this standard of measurement.



So now that we have established you have no good reason to believe the things you do lets ask the important question:
WHY do you hold the beliefs and opinions that you do?

"I don't Debate, I Discuss" I offer my opinions, and listen to yours, I will not require proof of opinions, but I may ask for clarification or state that I reject your position and why, & if asked, I will further clarify mine --- However, I reject any requirement that I PROVE my position is accurate and proper.
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