OBI-WAN KANOBI
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22-11-2014, 06:31 PM
RE: OBI-WAN KANOBI
(22-11-2014 06:07 PM)doniston Wrote:  From the dictionary

evolutionist
noun
1. a person who believes in or supports a theory of evolution, especially in biology.

gravityist Nadda there is also no appleist, or rainiest or cloudiest, etc. Nuf said.

At work.


I'm sorry, but I am still failing to understand your use of said word. That some one has thought said word was worth putting into a dictionary is also puzzling but neither here nor there.

I think what others are suggesting is that to use such a phrase some how makes evolution distinct and, as such, why then do people NOT make similar distinctions for other theories such as Gravity or Geology or Astronomy.

Am I understandable in my comment?

When I am home again ( And, should you not mind delays ln responses due to different time zones and such) I'll be more than happy to continue our discourse.

Much cheers to all.
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22-11-2014, 06:39 PM
Installment 2
Since you folks are having so much fun with the first two, I guess it's time to add the third




Let the force be with you< part ii
PREAMBLE (so to speak) 


Thanks to all who have participated in this discussion thus far, After I have posted this section I will tend to all newer posts which appear to require response. I have decide that this installment should be dedicated to my specific religious beliefs and disbeliefs, and will consist of the basis of my reasoning followed by my position regarding specific Bible stories, 
It should be noted that while I am not a true believer, I do think that by and large the Bible is a relatively true historical account of AD events and further:
While I am a feverant believer in these things, I am not (repeat) AM NOT trying to convert anyone, I am just explaining my position If some of you agree, fine, if not, then retain your own views.
I am also not insisting or even claiming that my opinions are fact. no one will really know until they pass on the next level(if there truly is one)


***
“Old wood” likened my position as a loosely based religion --I agree with him. For all intents and purposes, this IS my religion, and I call it “Scientific Christian Spiritualism” Perhaps after reading this you will agree the name is fitting. It is based on my knowledge of ,experience with, and interpretations of scientific developments, Christian principles, and partial recognition of Ghosts and spirits. 
Genesis: As I read it, Genesis and evolutionary science coincide, except for the definition of time, I believe the word day in the Bible could well mean era or age. As examples, in my younger years I knew a Church in Christ Minister who believed that they all meant days, (except the first which was millions of years long.) “Sled dog “insists that because the bible says it, that each day was precisely 24 hours long. With thanks to “Dos Equis” for introducing me to Dr Schroeder (tho I have not yet been able to digest the whole report) I have found someone who views that timeline, much as I do. By considering those days as ages, the stories fit, and dino then has a place in the story.


In my beliefs, when a person passes on, it is only the life force that moves (perhaps called the soul) and if undestroyed by his or her own doubts, Can (be like a child to enter into the kingdom of God)“The force”, which according to my belief, is a secondary area of existence wherein these life forces co- mingle yet because they are an intelligence, can perceive any manner of comfort or privilege of which they can conceive ( heaven) In your dreams, or nightmares you can conceive almost anything) Scientifically this might be what is considered alternate existences (string theory).
At any rate, this is my Heaven, and I spoke of spiritualism, I believe in spirits and apparitions, and have experienced such visitations (from my Great uncle, my Brother, and my daughter). And I have been informed by a now deceased friend of matters which cannot be explained by coincidence. 
Do I deserve such a place? You be the Judge, My main claim thereof is to try very hard to “ Do nothing Hurtful, Harmful, mean or unfair to any individual or animal”. While I am not perfect, I try very hard to live up to those standards. And yes, Tho it is sometimes hard to admit, we all judge people every day( perhaps under our breath)




TO Young earth believers and devotees, a question:, if the world is only several thousand years old, How do you explain Dino bones, artifacts and ruins of buildings and civilizations which are Scientifically dated to be 12 to 14 thousand years old, and construction techniques that even now, we can't duplicate,?? 

As to Christ. He is not the first to be credited with his attributes and/or lifestyle. Ancient Hebrew Texts relate a similar character some two thousand years BC. While I believe he existed ,and had the attributed followers, I believe he was a martyr and avid believer of his cause, but I don't believe he was God, or a god, any more than you or I are gods. I think we are all of part of the so-called God(the force) and the Force, in turn is the natural force which regulates what happens everywhere. I can't describe it otherwise and It is something humans will never be able to learn it;s true beginning.


A common question between the theories “Which came first, the Chicken or the egg”. Creationists say the Chicken because god created all animals. The evolutionists, like me believe it was the egg, because the fist egg that became a chicken was the result of the breeding of tho dissimilar creatures, neither of which could be considered a true chicken. ---there are other arguments, but lastly:


The flood. To make a long story short without precise mathematical details, consider the following. The Ocean at the lowest is approx 7 miles deep and covers 3/5 of the world therefor averaging about 4.25 miles deep world wide. The land is between sea level, and 7 miles above, and cover 2/5 of the world. That is therefore averaging 2,8 mile on the land mass (tho I believe it is much less) and world wide 1.6 the difference necessary to cover the world (al but the highest peak, as defined in the bible), it would take an, ADDITIONAL 5.3 Miles of water world wide to make up the difference, MORE THAN ALL< where did it go. Evaporation???? My believe, based on scientific principles and examination ,is that the flood was localized perhaps an extension or expansion of the Black sea due to natural upheavals, depressions and THE EXISTING WATER ON EARTH Two questions, where did that extra water come from, and then disappear from the earth and it's surface?. 
.

"I don't Debate, I Discuss" I offer my opinions, and listen to yours, I will not require proof of opinions, but I may ask for clarification or state that I reject your position and why, & if asked, I will further clarify mine --- However, I reject any requirement that I PROVE my position is accurate and proper.
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22-11-2014, 06:51 PM
RE: OBI-WAN KANOBI
(22-11-2014 06:39 PM)doniston Wrote:  It should be noted that while I am not a true believer, I do think that by and large the Bible is a relatively true historical account of AD events and further

Except that there really isn't much history there at all, even if you accept that what little is there is historically accurate.

Quote:While I am a feverant believer in these things, I am not (repeat) AM NOT trying to convert anyone, I am just explaining my position If some of you agree, fine, if not, then retain your own views.

So you are just here to preach the gospel according to doniston?

Quote:Genesis: As I read it, Genesis and evolutionary science coincide, except for the definition of time, I believe the word day in the Bible could well mean era or age.

Which genesis story? The order of events listed in the 2 stories conflicts and neither matches the science so how do they coincide?

Quote:In my beliefs, when a person passes on, it is only the life force that moves (perhaps called the soul) and if undestroyed by his or her own doubts

Your signature says that you will not attempt to prove anything. Will you attempt to show that there is any rational basis at all for your claims?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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22-11-2014, 06:52 PM
RE: OBI-WAN KANOBI
At work.

Sorry for being breif.

Wonderful, you are/seem to be a christian deist. Why should your iteration of god be any better/more likely than Wodanism, Hinduism, Taoism, Zaoastaism(sp?) etc beliefs?

Much cheers to all.
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22-11-2014, 07:33 PM
RE: OBI-WAN KANOBI
(22-11-2014 06:51 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(22-11-2014 06:39 PM)doniston Wrote:  It should be noted that while I am not a true believer, I do think that by and large the Bible is a relatively true historical account of AD events and further

Except that there really isn't much history there at all, even if you accept that what little is there is historically accurate.

Quote:While I am a feverant believer in these things, I am not (repeat) AM NOT trying to convert anyone, I am just explaining my position If some of you agree, fine, if not, then retain your own views.

So you are just here to preach the gospel according to doniston?

Quote:Genesis: As I read it, Genesis and evolutionary science coincide, except for the definition of time, I believe the word day in the Bible could well mean era or age.

Which genesis story? The order of events listed in the 2 stories conflicts and neither matches the science so how do they coincide?

Quote:In my beliefs, when a person passes on, it is only the life force that moves (perhaps called the soul) and if undestroyed by his or her own doubts

Your signature says that you will not attempt to prove anything. Will you attempt to show that there is any rational basis at all for your claims?
These are my beliefs, not necessarily yours. why don't you list yours instead of denying mine?

Yes, I do believe that much of the bible is accurate and at least as accurate as much of the so-called folklore is.

I am stating my beliefs, and if that is what you call preaching, then we differ in opinion but my so-called preaching dispenses information which your lack of stating your own beliefs or position does not

What "TWO" stories are you speaking of. I was referring the KJV and my opinions

I will not attempt to show any further explanation of my beliefs unless there are specific questions regarding them. No like yours, you are just on a fishing expedition.

"I don't Debate, I Discuss" I offer my opinions, and listen to yours, I will not require proof of opinions, but I may ask for clarification or state that I reject your position and why, & if asked, I will further clarify mine --- However, I reject any requirement that I PROVE my position is accurate and proper.
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22-11-2014, 07:42 PM
RE: OBI-WAN KANOBI
(22-11-2014 06:52 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.

Sorry for being breif.

Wonderful, you are/seem to be a christian deist. Why should your iteration of god be any better/more likely than Wodanism, Hinduism, Taoism, Zaoastaism(sp?) etc beliefs?

Much cheers to all.
Did you get my PM? if so. was I correct about you? I will answer on that basis.
I am not a Christian, but I believe in the Christian practices, which I believe are the same as most religions around the world. I have stated those beliefs in my posts. and I try to live by them

therefore, as I have no person God but only the natural actions which we all are part of. mine is only better for me, than yours if for you, whatever that is. my only religion or god, is nature.

"I don't Debate, I Discuss" I offer my opinions, and listen to yours, I will not require proof of opinions, but I may ask for clarification or state that I reject your position and why, & if asked, I will further clarify mine --- However, I reject any requirement that I PROVE my position is accurate and proper.
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22-11-2014, 07:44 PM
RE: OBI-WAN KANOBI
(22-11-2014 07:33 PM)doniston Wrote:  What "TWO" stories are you speaking of. I was referring the KJV

There are 2 interwoven creation stories in Genesis, even in the KJV.

Quote:and my opinions

Which you will not defend in any way
Thumbsup

Quote:you are just on a fishing expedition.

I'm just trying to understand why you believe what you believe.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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22-11-2014, 07:46 PM
RE: OBI-WAN KANOBI
(22-11-2014 07:42 PM)doniston Wrote:  
(22-11-2014 06:52 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.

Sorry for being breif.

Wonderful, you are/seem to be a christian deist. Why should your iteration of god be any better/more likely than Wodanism, Hinduism, Taoism, Zaoastaism(sp?) etc beliefs?

Much cheers to all.
Did you get my PM? if so. was I correct about you? I will answer on that basis.
I am not a Christian, but I believe in the Christian practices, which I believe are the same as most religions around the world. I have stated those beliefs in my posts. and I try to live by them

therefore, as I have no person God but only the natural actions which we all are part of. mine is only better for me, than yours if for you, whatever that is. my only religion or god, is nature.

Didn't you say "BYE"? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-11-2014, 09:42 PM
RE: OBI-WAN KANOBI
(22-11-2014 07:44 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(22-11-2014 07:33 PM)doniston Wrote:  What "TWO" stories are you speaking of. I was referring the KJV

There are 2 interwoven creation stories in Genesis, even in the KJV.

Quote:and my opinions

Which you will not defend in any way
Thumbsup

Quote:you are just on a fishing expedition.

I'm just trying to understand why you believe what you believe.
-I have read that section of the bible several times and only have found one story.

Tjhere is no need to defend my opinions There is no way you can understand why I believe how I do. you weren't there.

ask specific questions and I will try to answer them.

otherwise stop fishing, you are out of bait

"I don't Debate, I Discuss" I offer my opinions, and listen to yours, I will not require proof of opinions, but I may ask for clarification or state that I reject your position and why, & if asked, I will further clarify mine --- However, I reject any requirement that I PROVE my position is accurate and proper.
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22-11-2014, 09:47 PM
RE: OBI-WAN KANOBI
(22-11-2014 06:31 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(22-11-2014 06:07 PM)doniston Wrote:  From the dictionary

evolutionist
noun
1. a person who believes in or supports a theory of evolution, especially in biology.

gravityist Nadda there is also no appleist, or rainiest or cloudiest, etc. Nuf said.

At work.


I'm sorry, but I am still failing to understand your use of said word. That some one has thought said word was worth putting into a dictionary is also puzzling but neither here nor there.

I think what others are suggesting is that to use such a phrase some how makes evolution distinct and, as such, why then do people NOT make similar distinctions for other theories such as Gravity or Geology or Astronomy.

Am I understandable in my comment?

When I am home again ( And, should you not mind delays ln responses due to different time zones and such) I'll be more than happy to continue our discourse.

Much cheers to all.
`This is the post I answered for you on pm did you get that?

"I don't Debate, I Discuss" I offer my opinions, and listen to yours, I will not require proof of opinions, but I may ask for clarification or state that I reject your position and why, & if asked, I will further clarify mine --- However, I reject any requirement that I PROVE my position is accurate and proper.
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