OK, this is NOT ok.
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24-01-2015, 10:46 AM
RE: OK, this is NOT ok.
(24-01-2015 10:29 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  I wish both sides would meet in the middle.

Let gays get married, but don't force religious business owners to make gay wedding cakes or supply flowers to gay weddings.

I understand both sides, and both sides go to the extreme to get their way.

Where then, would the discrimination line be drawn?
Claiming religious reasons for refusal is an attempt to mask discrimination and bigotry. It's bullshit and both sides know it.
Why does what someone does in private need to effect what they buy at a store?
It's sad you don't see how ridiculous that is.
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24-01-2015, 11:24 AM
RE: OK, this is NOT ok.
(24-01-2015 10:46 AM)pablo Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 10:29 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  I wish both sides would meet in the middle.

Let gays get married, but don't force religious business owners to make gay wedding cakes or supply flowers to gay weddings.

I understand both sides, and both sides go to the extreme to get their way.

Where then, would the discrimination line be drawn?
Claiming religious reasons for refusal is an attempt to mask discrimination and bigotry. It's bullshit and both sides know it.
Why does what someone does in private need to effect what they buy at a store?
It's sad you don't see how ridiculous that is.

Not saying it's right, I'm just saying I understand where the religious people are coming from. Their thought is that providing services to a gay wedding is supporting gay marriage, which they don't. They don't see it as bigotry, because their holy book says that a man shall not lay with a man as he would lay with a woman. It is not their choice to believe this way, their god has commanded them. As Americans they have the right to believe this. Forcing them to go against their religious beliefs is against the very core of our constitutional rights.

In a perfect world we'd all be atheists. That isn't going to happen anytime soon. Let people be free to make their own religious choices.

Death is a debt we all must pay.
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24-01-2015, 11:59 AM
RE: OK, this is NOT ok.
Imbeciles like these are the reason we have spoof religions. Time for the invisible pink unicorn to solemnize some weddings.

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Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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24-01-2015, 12:09 PM
RE: OK, this is NOT ok.
(24-01-2015 10:46 AM)pablo Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 10:29 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  I wish both sides would meet in the middle.

Let gays get married, but don't force religious business owners to make gay wedding cakes or supply flowers to gay weddings.

I understand both sides, and both sides go to the extreme to get their way.

Where then, would the discrimination line be drawn?
Claiming religious reasons for refusal is an attempt to mask discrimination and bigotry. It's bullshit and both sides know it.
Why does what someone does in private need to effect what they buy at a store?
It's sad you don't see how ridiculous that is.

Nailed it pablo.

While I assume patriot10mm's intent is good (live and let live), each of our decisions rgerading laws need to be thought through carefully for unintended consequences and this is a classic.

The list of these is long, from enshrining discrimination to compromising free speech.

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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24-01-2015, 01:15 PM
RE: OK, this is NOT ok.
A persons right to not be discriminated against should always trump someones right to believe in the imaginary.
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24-01-2015, 01:28 PM
RE: OK, this is NOT ok.
What these business owners don't understand is that when you allow someone to buy your product, you're not "supporting" their personal choices, they're the ones supporting your business.

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24-01-2015, 01:37 PM (This post was last modified: 24-01-2015 01:41 PM by Patriot10mm.)
RE: OK, this is NOT ok.
(24-01-2015 01:15 PM)pablo Wrote:  A persons right to not be discriminated against should always trump someones right to believe in the imaginary.

One of my Christian friends explained it like this:

Discrimination for genetic or medical reasons should be illegal. Race, sex, height, weight, disabilities are all genetic or medical in nature.

But people should have the right to discriminate against choices. Business owners can refuse people with criminal records. Criminal choices lead to fewer job opportunities. Or maybe they dislike Michael Moore for saying something negative about gun rights. He walks into a restaurant and the owner says "get out. I don't serve you anti-American types here." Michael Moore has the choice to be anti-gun or not, and a business owner has the right to refuse service to him. Now if scientists find a gene that makes people against guns, then anti-gun could become a protected class.

To christians, being gay is a choice, not genetic or medical. Christians say all the time "show us proof gay is genetic." They want a gay gene to be found before they'll believe it isn't a choice.

To them, if its a choice, then they can choose not to support those choices.

As I said, this is what I hear from christians, not my personal beliefs on the matter.

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24-01-2015, 01:50 PM
RE: OK, this is NOT ok.
(24-01-2015 11:24 AM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 10:46 AM)pablo Wrote:  Where then, would the discrimination line be drawn?
Claiming religious reasons for refusal is an attempt to mask discrimination and bigotry. It's bullshit and both sides know it.
Why does what someone does in private need to effect what they buy at a store?
It's sad you don't see how ridiculous that is.


Not saying it's right, I'm just saying I understand where the religious people are coming from. Their thought is that providing services to a gay wedding is supporting gay marriage, which they don't. They don't see it as bigotry, because their holy book says that a man shall not lay with a man as he would lay with a woman. It is not their choice to believe this way, their god has commanded them. As Americans they have the right to believe this. Forcing them to go against their religious beliefs is against the very core of our constitutional rights.

In a perfect world we'd all be atheists. That isn't going to happen anytime soon. Let people be free to make their own religious choices.


Your entire line of reasoning is giving religious beliefs unearned weight as something just as real as the rights of a living breathing human being.
By denying anything to someone with differing beliefs, they are imposing their beliefs on them. That is not freedom of/from religion.
Does treating another person badly, in this life, here and now in the hopes of some personal gain for themselves after they are dead seem reasonable?
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24-01-2015, 02:06 PM (This post was last modified: 24-01-2015 02:11 PM by pablo.)
RE: OK, this is NOT ok.
(24-01-2015 01:37 PM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  
(24-01-2015 01:15 PM)pablo Wrote:  A persons right to not be discriminated against should always trump someones right to believe in the imaginary.

One of my Christian friends explained it like this:

Discrimination for genetic or medical reasons should be illegal. Race, sex, height, weight, disabilities are all genetic or medical in nature.

But people should have the right to discriminate against choices. Business owners can refuse people with criminal records. Criminal choices lead to fewer job opportunities. Or maybe they dislike Michael Moore for saying something negative about gun rights. He walks into a restaurant and the owner says "get out. I don't serve you anti-American types here." Michael Moore has the choice to be anti-gun or not, and a business owner has the right to refuse service to him. Now if scientists find a gene that makes people against guns, then anti-gun could become a protected class.

To christians, being gay is a choice, not genetic or medical. Christians say all the time "show us proof gay is genetic." They want a gay gene to be found before they'll believe it isn't a choice.

To them, if its a choice, then they can choose not to support those choices.

As I said, this is what I hear from christians, not my personal beliefs on the matter.


OK, what are your personal beliefs on the matter?
Why comment at all if you're not going to use your own opinion?
Should all your replies be treated as hearsay unless otherwise specified?
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24-01-2015, 02:10 PM
RE: OK, this is NOT ok.
(24-01-2015 01:37 PM)Patriot10mm Wrote:  One of my Christian friends explained it like this:

Discrimination for genetic or medical reasons should be illegal. Race, sex, height, weight, disabilities are all genetic or medical in nature.

But people should have the right to discriminate against choices. Business owners can refuse people with criminal records. Criminal choices lead to fewer job opportunities. Or maybe they dislike Michael Moore for saying something negative about gun rights. He walks into a restaurant and the owner says "get out. I don't serve you anti-American types here." Michael Moore has the choice to be anti-gun or not, and a business owner has the right to refuse service to him. Now if scientists find a gene that makes people against guns, then anti-gun could become a protected class.

To christians, being gay is a choice, not genetic or medical. Christians say all the time "show us proof gay is genetic." They want a gay gene to be found before they'll believe it isn't a choice.

To them, if its a choice, then they can choose not to support those choices.

As I said, this is what I hear from christians, not my personal beliefs on the matter.

I'd love to see a Christians' reaction to someone denying them service because "being religious is a choice". I'm sure they'd calmly accept the repercussions of their bigotry and go elsewhere. Rolleyes

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