OK trump supporters, convince me......
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21-11-2016, 10:03 AM
RE: OK trump supporters, convince me......
(21-11-2016 08:59 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(21-11-2016 05:16 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I'm not sure why you put "brilliant" between quotation marks. His loony remarks don't take away from the fact that he's an outstanding surgeon.

I put it in quotations because he is fantastic brain surgeon, but fantastically bad at reasoning in others. I never meant to imply that he wasn't an outstanding surgeon.

He congratulated himself a little too early in the book he wrote. The operation of conjoined twins is what made him famous. The twins, who were from Germany, were severely disabled from the operation and became wards of the state. One of them died. When comparing his work to other brain surgeon's his work really doesn't stand out but his book sold very well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle...story.html

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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21-11-2016, 10:09 AM
RE: OK trump supporters, convince me......
(21-11-2016 08:59 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(21-11-2016 05:16 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I'm not sure why you put "brilliant" between quotation marks. His loony remarks don't take away from the fact that he's an outstanding surgeon.

I put it in quotations because he is fantastic brain surgeon, but fantastically bad at reasoning in others. I never meant to imply that he wasn't an outstanding surgeon.

Idiot savant.

#sigh
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21-11-2016, 10:41 AM
RE: OK trump supporters, convince me......
(21-11-2016 10:03 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  He congratulated himself a little too early in the book he wrote. The operation of conjoined twins is what made him famous. The twins, who were from Germany, were severely disabled from the operation and became wards of the state. One of them died. When comparing his work to other brain surgeon's his work really doesn't stand out but his book sold very well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle...story.html
That article directly contradicts almost everything you said in your post. Maybe read it first next time. Facepalm

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21-11-2016, 10:53 AM
RE: OK trump supporters, convince me......
(21-11-2016 10:41 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(21-11-2016 10:03 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  He congratulated himself a little too early in the book he wrote. The operation of conjoined twins is what made him famous. The twins, who were from Germany, were severely disabled from the operation and became wards of the state. One of them died. When comparing his work to other brain surgeon's his work really doesn't stand out but his book sold very well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle...story.html
That article directly contradicts almost everything you said in your post. Maybe read it first next time. Facepalm

The conjoined twins that made this man so famous ended badly and in his book he never once makes any reference to it. In his book he claims that the two twin boys were " progressing beyond my wildest dreams” . This simply wasn't true. Later he operated on older twin girls from India which other neurosurgeons predicted would end in death because the skulls were too thick and the brains were far too intertwined. He went ahead and operated on them but they died on the operating table.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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21-11-2016, 11:16 AM
RE: OK trump supporters, convince me......
(21-11-2016 10:53 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  The conjoined twins that made this man so famous ended badly and in his book he never once makes any reference to it. In his book he claims that the two twin boys were "progressing beyond my wildest dreams”. This simply wasn't true.
His book "Gifted Hands" was published in 1992. He had already publicly acknowledged the unfortunate outcome of the surgery three years prior to its release, so no, he didn't "congratulate himself a little too early." Allow me to quote your article:

“In a technological ‘star wars’ sort of way, the operation was a fantastic success,” Carson said in an Associated Press article from 1989. “But as far as having normal children, I don’t think it was all that successful.”

As for them progressing beyond his wildest dreams - how can you say that's "simply not true" when you don't know what his expectations at the time were?

(21-11-2016 10:53 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Later he operated on older twin girls from India which other neurosurgeons predicted would end in death because the skulls were too thick and the brains were far too intertwined. He went ahead and operated on them but they died on the operating table.
If you're trying to show that he's not a brilliant surgeon by cherry-picking unsuccessful surgeries in his career, you're really grasping at straws. Allow me to quote your own article, again:

"The surgery did prove that it was technically possible for twins conjoined at the head to be separated and for both to survive. It created a blueprint for other doctors to follow in the future. Carson himself would go on to participate in four other similar surgeries — one of which, a 1997 surgery of Zambian twins, left both patients not only alive but neurologically normal."

"Carson would go on to perform hundreds of other difficult and impressive surgeries, including operating on babies inside the womb and removing large chunks of the brains of children plagued by repetitive seizures."

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21-11-2016, 11:38 AM
RE: OK trump supporters, convince me......
(21-11-2016 11:16 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(21-11-2016 10:53 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  The conjoined twins that made this man so famous ended badly and in his book he never once makes any reference to it. In his book he claims that the two twin boys were "progressing beyond my wildest dreams”. This simply wasn't true.
His book "Gifted Hands" was published in 1992. He had already publicly acknowledged the unfortunate outcome of the surgery three years prior to its release, so no, he didn't "congratulate himself a little too early." Allow me to quote your article:

“In a technological ‘star wars’ sort of way, the operation was a fantastic success,” Carson said in an Associated Press article from 1989. “But as far as having normal children, I don’t think it was all that successful.”

As for them progressing beyond his wildest dreams - how can you say that's "simply not true" when you don't know what his expectations at the time were?

(21-11-2016 10:53 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Later he operated on older twin girls from India which other neurosurgeons predicted would end in death because the skulls were too thick and the brains were far too intertwined. He went ahead and operated on them but they died on the operating table.
If you're trying to show that he's not a brilliant surgeon by cherry-picking unsuccessful surgeries in his career, you're really grasping at straws. Allow me to quote your own article, again:

"The surgery did prove that it was technically possible for twins conjoined at the head to be separated and for both to survive. It created a blueprint for other doctors to follow in the future. Carson himself would go on to participate in four other similar surgeries — one of which, a 1997 surgery of Zambian twins, left both patients not only alive but neurologically normal."

"Carson would go on to perform hundreds of other difficult and impressive surgeries, including operating on babies inside the womb and removing large chunks of the brains of children plagued by repetitive seizures."

Have you read his book? I have. He doesn't follow through with the operations that didn't end well. Everything is just hunky-dory. He depicts himself as very very humble and oh so modest and unworthy. God is working through his hands and all that rot. His modesty gets to the point of being boastful. He's a creationist and toys with the anti-vax nonsense.

Yes, he's done some wonderful things but there are many more brain surgeons out there who have done incredible work but don't need to write a book about how humble they are.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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[+] 1 user Likes dancefortwo's post
21-11-2016, 11:46 AM (This post was last modified: 21-11-2016 11:51 AM by Vosur.)
RE: OK trump supporters, convince me......
(21-11-2016 11:38 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(21-11-2016 11:16 AM)Vosur Wrote:  His book "Gifted Hands" was published in 1992. He had already publicly acknowledged the unfortunate outcome of the surgery three years prior to its release, so no, he didn't "congratulate himself a little too early." Allow me to quote your article:

“In a technological ‘star wars’ sort of way, the operation was a fantastic success,” Carson said in an Associated Press article from 1989. “But as far as having normal children, I don’t think it was all that successful.”

As for them progressing beyond his wildest dreams - how can you say that's "simply not true" when you don't know what his expectations at the time were?

If you're trying to show that he's not a brilliant surgeon by cherry-picking unsuccessful surgeries in his career, you're really grasping at straws. Allow me to quote your own article, again:

"The surgery did prove that it was technically possible for twins conjoined at the head to be separated and for both to survive. It created a blueprint for other doctors to follow in the future. Carson himself would go on to participate in four other similar surgeries — one of which, a 1997 surgery of Zambian twins, left both patients not only alive but neurologically normal."

"Carson would go on to perform hundreds of other difficult and impressive surgeries, including operating on babies inside the womb and removing large chunks of the brains of children plagued by repetitive seizures."

Have you read his book? I have. He doesn't follow through with the operations that didn't end well. Everything is just hunky-dory. He depicts himself as very very humble and oh so modest and unworthy. God is working through his hands and all that rot. His modesty gets to the point of being boastful. He's a creationist and toys with the anti-vax nonsense.

Yes, he's done some wonderful things but there are many more brain surgeons out there who have done incredible work but don't need to write a book about how humble they are.
I haven't, but other people have said much of the same about the book in their reviews. So while that is a valid criticism, trying to deny his skill as a doctor is not. Earlier in this thread, someone said that he is a good example of compartmentalization and I'm inclined to agree with him. The man is clearly very skilled at what he does, but his expertise and scientific curiosity unfortunately don't go beyond the field of medicine.

I'm not sure where you're getting his anti-vax views from. Here's what he said in one of the Republican debates when Trump tried to link vaccines to autism:



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