OMEGLE with a theist (inspired by Vosur)
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18-06-2013, 09:45 AM
OMEGLE with a theist (inspired by Vosur)
First, a shoutout to Vosur. I enjoyed your threads about OMEGLE-ing with theists so much that I told myself: "I gotta try that!"

Here is my first conversation with a theist. There wasn't much hostility, but there were a couple of LOLZ. Smile Enjoy, and any constructive feedback will be welcome!

[/quote]
You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hello!
You both like Religion.
You: hiya
You: what's up?
Stranger: nm. you?
You: oh this and that
You: are you religious?
Stranger: yes. you?
You: no. im an atheist
Stranger: okay
You: you seem cool with it.
Stranger: yeah
Stranger: that is not wrong if you're an atheist
Stranger: but it is wrong if you stay being atheist
Stranger: my opinion
You: hm.
You: why is that?
You: im curious.
Stranger: because you don't believe God exists and the same time you're not sure of it
You: how do you know im not sure of it?
Stranger: so are you sure of it?
You: yes. 99.99% sure
You: just short of 100%
Stranger: how do you prove it?
You: i don't have to
You: the burden of proof is with the believers
Stranger: the burden of proof is with non believers too
You: im sorry, but no
Stranger: it is like saying: I don't believe in something because I have no knowledge about it
Stranger: the question is: why don't you seek for it?
You: actually, no
You: it's more like:
You: i have not seen anything even remotely resembling a god, so i think there is no god.
You: and i don't seek for it because i have better things to do
Stranger: right. The reason is: I can not see God with my limited abilities and my eyes
Stranger: it is like "Religions and The idea about existance of God are not important"
You: yes indeed. you are right. Smile
Stranger: "so I don't believe in God"
Stranger: there is the problem
You: why is it a problem?
Stranger: it's not that you are sure that God doesn't exist, but it is You Don't Care about it
You: you are partially correct
You: i'd rather live my life, doing the best i can to provide for my family, and contribute to society than believe there is someone watching over my shoulder ready to punish me just for not believing in him.
You: why do you believe?
Stranger: because it makes more sense that we're created
You: actually no
Stranger: enlighten me?
You: it makes more sense that we evolved
You: if we were created, then who created our creator?
Stranger: the Creator has no creator, of course
You: but that doesn't make sense
Stranger: if you go by that, you'll never find the end
You: exactly
You: there is no resolution to that
Stranger: it makes sense, do you know what happened before humans exist?
You: enlighten me
Stranger: no, I don't know either. I ask you question in order to you to think
Stranger: do you believe that time counts after we exist?
You: im sorry i don't follow
You: time has always been there
Stranger: I mean, how do you know there's no other life before humans exist?
You: from fossils
You: paleontological evidence
You: oh wait sorry
You: i misunderstood
You: there was life before we existed
You: based on fossils and other paleontological evidence
Stranger: does science answer everything about how this life came to be?
You: no. nor does science claim it does answer everything about it. but is has some pretty good ideas
You: logical and consistent ideas
Stranger: I'm talking with two atheists right now
Stranger: talking about same matter
Stranger: I don't see it logical to me, just becasue "science" says a little bit about life
You: hm
You: but science doesn't just say that.
You: evolution and natural selection actually explain our origins pretty well, once you try and understand it
Stranger: I don't believe that we and chimps are cousins
Stranger: that doesn't make sense
You: but it does
You: we have several things in common
Stranger: ok, so chimps are your cousins?
You: we came from the same ancestor
Stranger: they can't discuss things like us now, they're not given the ability to do so. So we're really different
You: i didn't say we were the same
You: evolution does not say that either
You: it just says we came from a common ancestor
Stranger: but most atheists say "we're animals" which is I very disagree
You: but we are
You: perhaps the reason you disagree is because you have a different definition of "animal"
You: Animal:
You: Noun
A living organism that feeds on organic matter, typically having specialized sense organs and nervous system and able to respond rapidly...
Stranger: that doesn't make us animal
You: um
You: we are a living organism
You: we have specialized sense organs
You: we have nervous systems that respond rapidly to stimuli
You: so...
You: it actually DOES make us animals
Stranger: if plants had the same things, does that make us Plants also?
Stranger: humans are humans
Stranger: animals are animals
Stranger: plants are plants
You: um, yes.
You: but plants DON'T have those characteristics
You: so....
You: they are NOT animals
You: we HAVE those characteristics
You: so...
You: we ARE animals
Stranger: simply and ignorant to me
Stranger: animals can't reason and doing things like us. Plants don't have those characterisics, neither animals have, but We're still Animals?
Stranger: you're too much
You: um
You: you seem to be confused
Stranger: just because you don't believe in God you go so far
You: yes animals can't reason
You: so....
You: animals are NOT HUMANS
You: but....
You: HUMANS are living organisms
You: HUMANS have specialized sense organs
Stranger: but humans are animals?
You: HUMANS have a nervous system that reacts rapidly to stimuli
You: so...
You: HUMANS are ANIMALS
You: see?
Stranger: okay so animals NOT humans, but humans = animals
You: yes!
You: Smile
Stranger: that
You: well
Stranger: that's stupid to me
You: not exactly "equal"
You: just the same classification
You: like all thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs
You: um...
You: ok, i guess.
You: but can you think about it some more?
You: it really does make sense you know.
You: here:
You: PLANTS
You: Any of various photosynthetic, eukaryotic, multicellular organisms of the kingdom Plantae characteristically producing embryos, containing chloroplasts,
Stranger: ...
You: ANIMALS
You: A living organism that feeds on organic matter, typically having specialized sense organs and nervous system and able to respond rapidly...
You: HUMANS
You: Humans are primates of the family Hominidae, and the only extant species of the genus Homo. Humans are distinguished from other animals by a relatively larger brain with a particularly well developed
You: nervous system
You: so....
You: PLANTS are NOT ANIMALS
You: ANIMALS are NOT HUMANS
You: But...
You: HUMANS are ANIMALS
You: ok? Smile
Stranger: Boys are girls, but Girls are not boys. Just like that?
Stranger: make it simple
You: i go back to my previous example
You: all THUMBS are FINGERS
You: but not all FINGERS are THUMBS
You: THUMBS are a special kind of finger
You: just like HUMANS are a special kind of ANIMAL
Stranger: no, that is an example for: Elephant is animal, but Animals are not elephant
Stranger: you got the wrong example
You: it's similar
You: if you take a look at what you typed
Stranger: so my example is right, you think of this way: Boys are girls, but Girls are not boys
You: substitute HUMANS for ELEPHANTS
You: and you'll see that's exactly what im saying
You: no
You: that's wrong
You: sorry
You: that's not what i meant at all
You: go back to what you wrote about ELEPHANTS
Stranger: no, I just pointed you that that THUMBS example is like The ELEPHANT example
You: substitute HUMANS
Stranger: not for HUMAN example
You: um
You: but by saying the ELEPHANT example you actually agreed with my analogy
Stranger: yes, that THUMB example, NOT HUMAN example
You: um
You: but
You: you say the THUMB example is like the ELEPHANT example
You: right?
Stranger: Humans are animals, but Animals are Not humans = Boys are girls, but Girls are Not boys
You: but substitute HUMAN for ELEPHANT, and you get what i've been saying
You: so.
Stranger: Thumbs are fingers, but Fingers are Not thumbs = Elephants are animals, but Animals are Not elephants
You: the THUMBS analogy is like MY EXAMPLE
You: again, substitute HUMANS for ELEPHANTS
You: and go back to what i said before.
Stranger: Humans are animals, but Animals are Not humans = Boys are girls, but Girls are Not boys
Thumbs are fingers, but Fingers are Not thumbs = Elephants are animals, but Animals are Not elephants
Stranger: you see the difference
You: um
You: again
You: your first statement is not what i said at all
You: your second statement:
You: Humans are primates of the family Hominidae, and the only extant species of the genus Homo. Humans are distinguished from other animals by a relatively larger brain with a particularly well developed
You: sorry
Stranger: it's what I said yes, why do I have to follow you?
You: Thumbs are fingers, but fingers are not thumbs = elephants are animals, but animals are not elephants
You: substitute HUMANS for elephants
You: um
You: it's simple logic
Stranger: it will be wrong then
You: um, no
You: try it
Stranger: no, why not use this example? Boys are girls, but Girls are Not boys?
Stranger: try it
Stranger: the place is not right
You: because in the first place, boys are not girls
You: so the first part of your statement is false already
Stranger: Because you BELIEVE that humans are animals
You: whereas the first part of my statements you can see to be true
Stranger: I don't believe SO
You: so maybe you do have a different definition of animals
Stranger: we're different in many ways
Stranger: one of the differences is they don't reason like us
Stranger: that is why humans are ordered to worship God
Stranger: if animals could pray, they would not blame God for anything, because they can't reach into that thinking
You: interesting that you think prayer is for blaming god
Stranger: no
You: oops i misunderstood you. im sorry
Stranger: I mean, humans tend to forget about what God gives to them, and blame God when they have problems
You: so one purpose that humans have for god is as a scapegoat?
You: sorry, i really would like to continue this conversation but i have work tomorrow.
You: it was nice talking to you.
You: i learned a bit about you believers


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19-06-2013, 05:49 AM
RE: OMEGLE with a theist (inspired by Vosur)
Smile Thanks for the share. This believer must see some scientifical videos and read some books.
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19-06-2013, 07:41 AM
RE: OMEGLE with a theist (inspired by Vosur)
(19-06-2013 05:49 AM)viocjit Wrote:  Smile Thanks for the share. This believer must see some scientifical videos and read some books.

I know. he's the first theist i talked to. he fits into the stereotype. not willing to learn. even though the facts are staring him in the face.


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20-06-2013, 06:20 AM (This post was last modified: 20-06-2013 06:23 AM by Vosur.)
RE: OMEGLE with a theist (inspired by Vosur)
Thanks for the acknowledgement. I've gradually lost all interest in participating in religious discussions over the last couple of months so I doubt you'll read anything new from me anytime soon.

Perhaps I'll return to it one day, but for now, I remain apatheistic.

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20-06-2013, 06:38 AM
RE: OMEGLE with a theist (inspired by Vosur)
(20-06-2013 06:20 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Thanks for the acknowledgement. I've gradually lost all interest in participating in religious discussions over the last couple of months so I doubt you'll read anything new from me anytime soon.

Perhaps I'll return to it one day, but for now, I remain apatheistic.

No worries dude. Just wanted you to know you inspired me to find out for myself what the believers think. Thanks again!


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06-07-2013, 12:52 AM
RE: OMEGLE with a theist (inspired by Vosur)
Do you think it would have gone better if you tried to explain the hierarchy of ordering a bit more as a hierarchy than an analogy? Or if you explained that you cannot use a separate definition of something and expect someone using a different definition to classify things the same? I just thought of these as I was nearing the end of that. I still recall not really knowing that humans were animals until about 7th grade or so when our science class was "life sciences" (aka biology + anatomy for middle school). When you're never told these basic things, and when people go around referring to all other animals as animals and humans as humans it can be hard to believe that suddenly there is overlap.
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06-07-2013, 01:07 AM
RE: OMEGLE with a theist (inspired by Vosur)
What Cake said. Maybe the theist only made it to the 6th grade and doesn't understand biology, or the concept of sets and subsets, as evidenced by just substituting random shit ("girls are boys"). Perhaps it would have helped to re-word his example as something like, "All girls are humans, but not all humans are girls." This is why education is important. Without it, people don't make any sense and don't understand basic concepts.
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11-07-2013, 07:36 AM
RE: OMEGLE with a theist (inspired by Vosur)
(06-07-2013 12:52 AM)Cake Wrote:  Do you think it would have gone better if you tried to explain the hierarchy of ordering a bit more as a hierarchy than an analogy? Or if you explained that you cannot use a separate definition of something and expect someone using a different definition to classify things the same? I just thought of these as I was nearing the end of that. I still recall not really knowing that humans were animals until about 7th grade or so when our science class was "life sciences" (aka biology + anatomy for middle school). When you're never told these basic things, and when people go around referring to all other animals as animals and humans as humans it can be hard to believe that suddenly there is overlap.

Cake and amyb. Thanks for the tips. Thinking about it hierarchically actually also increased my comprehension and appreciation of evolution. Idea Thumbsup I also read about it in the Blind Watchmaker, which I am reading right now. I'm in research mode for now, I need to gather more information about the topics. I'll go back to social research in a few months.


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11-07-2013, 10:35 AM
RE: OMEGLE with a theist (inspired by Vosur)
To correct you on the matter of time...

Time has not always existed. There would be no time before the big bang, because time didn't exist until the big bang. Therefore there would have been no time for it to have existed in.

Also, evolution does not address how "life started" - it addresses the change of life over time. I think it's always good to drive that point home to them when they start going off on evolution since it seems to be a huge issue for them.

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11-07-2013, 11:37 AM
RE: OMEGLE with a theist (inspired by Vosur)
Humanity might have a shortage of food, water, energy....but there is not shortage of stupid.

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