Obama Considers Taking Out Assad, Again
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11-10-2016, 10:06 AM
RE: Obama Considers Taking Out Assad, Again
(11-10-2016 09:42 AM)Lucipurr Wrote:  
(11-10-2016 07:30 AM)tomilay Wrote:  Hard to say. His government has always been a minority government. It's an inherently unstable state of affairs.

He did a fairly good job before all this ISIS and US meddling in their affairs carry on.

The violence is a logical outcome of his dictatorship. Granted, a dictatorship at its pinnacle is less violent than when it's unraveling. But I wouldn't call it a good job.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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11-10-2016, 11:13 AM
RE: Obama Considers Taking Out Assad, Again
(09-10-2016 05:45 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I can hardly wait for Obama 2.0 to take office to continue this hawkish foreign policy for another 4 years. Dodgy

There ya go buddy fixt it for ya

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11-10-2016, 11:36 AM
RE: Obama Considers Taking Out Assad, Again
The older I get, the more I learn, the more hipocritical the world becomes.

Our leaders and the whole establishment, don't fight for freedom, they never have.

History just keeps repeating, over and over and over and....

It used to really piss me off. Now im just dead to it all. There is no way to stop these cunts. They will just create problem/reaction/solution.

What a crazy society we have become when we know politicians are all pretty much full of shit and wars are fought for profit and power, when the vast majority of our population are peacefull people just living life, yet we all allow it to happen, we all continue to vote and participate.

Sheer madness.

I feel so much, and yet I feel nothing.
I am a rock, I am the sky, the birds and the trees and everything beyond.
I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
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11-10-2016, 12:24 PM
RE: Obama Considers Taking Out Assad, Again
(11-10-2016 10:06 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(11-10-2016 09:42 AM)Lucipurr Wrote:  He did a fairly good job before all this ISIS and US meddling in their affairs carry on.

The violence is a logical outcome of his dictatorship. Granted, a dictatorship at its pinnacle is less violent than when it's unraveling. But I wouldn't call it a good job.

Our interests aren't served by having Iraq and Syria in turmoil. Encouraging the Syrian rebels by demanding Assad step down was a major blunder.
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11-10-2016, 01:06 PM
RE: Obama Considers Taking Out Assad, Again
(11-10-2016 12:24 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(11-10-2016 10:06 AM)tomilay Wrote:  The violence is a logical outcome of his dictatorship. Granted, a dictatorship at its pinnacle is less violent than when it's unraveling. But I wouldn't call it a good job.

Our interests aren't served by having Iraq and Syria in turmoil. Encouraging the Syrian rebels by demanding Assad step down was a major blunder.

Agreed. That called for more pragmatism.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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11-10-2016, 03:12 PM
RE: Obama Considers Taking Out Assad, Again
(11-10-2016 11:36 AM)bemore Wrote:  The older I get, the more I learn, the more hipocritical the world becomes.

Our leaders and the whole establishment, don't fight for freedom, they never have.

History just keeps repeating, over and over and over and....

It used to really piss me off. Now im just dead to it all. There is no way to stop these cunts. They will just create problem/reaction/solution.

What a crazy society we have become when we know politicians are all pretty much full of shit and wars are fought for profit and power, when the vast majority of our population are peacefull people just living life, yet we all allow it to happen, we all continue to vote and participate.

Sheer madness.
Yeah, I've noticed myself becoming increasingly numb and jaded about the state of affairs in the world as I get older as well. Democracy just doesn't work when a significant portion of the voting population treats it like a glorified high school popularity contest and when people don't bother making sure that the vote they cast is an informed one. Neither Clinton nor Trump could have gotten anywhere near the White House if the average voter was as informed as the average poster here.

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11-10-2016, 11:44 PM
RE: Obama Considers Taking Out Assad, Again
(11-10-2016 01:06 PM)tomilay Wrote:  
(11-10-2016 12:24 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Our interests aren't served by having Iraq and Syria in turmoil. Encouraging the Syrian rebels by demanding Assad step down was a major blunder.

Agreed. That called for more pragmatism.

You should address me as Capt Obvious, soldier!
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11-10-2016, 11:54 PM
RE: Obama Considers Taking Out Assad, Again
Then again IIRC Assad's government has used chemical weapons and killed large numbers of their own civilians. If anything qualifies as a rogue government it's them. Why are the rebels fighting him so hard, if he's a lovely nice guy who keeps the region stable?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-10-2016, 02:26 AM (This post was last modified: 12-10-2016 02:29 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Obama Considers Taking Out Assad, Again
(11-10-2016 11:54 PM)morondog Wrote:  Then again IIRC Assad's government has used chemical weapons and killed large numbers of their own civilians. If anything qualifies as a rogue government it's them. Why are the rebels fighting him so hard, if he's a lovely nice guy who keeps the region stable?

I don't think anyone s arguing that he's a lovely nice guy.

My own argument has a few thrusts:

1) America should stahp, stahp already, intervening in the affairs of other countries.

2) America cannot save the world. Hell, we might not be able to save ourselves. Expending national energy on non-decisive interventions is foolish, and most often redounds to our deficit.

3) In terms of Realpolitik, it serves our interests best to allow the Russians to bloody their own hands with war crimes even as they undertake tasks (such as killing extremists) which serve our own purposes.

Of course Assad is a cuntmuffin. He was one before this civil war started, and he will be one after he wins, which is what I think is the likely outcome. But he's alive for a reason -- as many people as there are who'd love to see him pushing up flowers, the Mossad leaves him alone, because a strife-torn Syria is not a threat to Israel. The CIA leaves him alone, because in the American view, an extremist victory there opens up new terrorist threats; in the Russian view, Assad is a puppet who will guard their basing agreements; in the Iranian view, Assad allows them closer access to Israel.

ISIS and the other extremists want Assad dead because he controls land they want, but they do not have the power to make that happen.

Much as I'd love to see that fucker shown off the face of the Earth, the fact is that if he were gone you'd have at least another decade of murderous strife (cf. Iraq). It's kinda like the Trolley Problem in ethics, isn't it? Let the strongman remain in power, and see some done to death under his rule ... or take him out, and see others done to death for lack of order in that poor nation.

There's no easy answer, no matter how much we might want one.
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