Obama: executive action to expand background checks
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24-12-2015, 11:18 AM
RE: Obama: executive action to expand background checks
(15-12-2015 07:15 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(15-12-2015 06:14 AM)SYZ Wrote:  The US needs to immediately initiate a gun buyback scheme as the Australian federal government did 19 years ago.

In 2012, the Guardian published new statistics drawn from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime and Small Arms Survey showing only "30 homicides by firearm" annually in Australia, or "0.14 per 100,000 population."

Over the same period, Americans suffered "9,146 homicides by firearm," at a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 population. And 60% of murders in the US are committed with a gun, according to the Guardian, compared to 11.5% in Australia.

—And the figures don't lie. Wake up America!
The information not explained above is the difference in population density. The difference percentage of fire-arms owned per population density.
"Population density" has absolutely nothing to do with my quoted statistics. I don't even know why you introduced that alleged variable? Pro rata is the defining rate. End of story.

(15-12-2015 07:15 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  It also doesn't report on the fact that pretty much the only weapons going into the crushers of the "Gun buy back" were antiques and rare pieces of metal work who's owners either could no longer afford the price of now owning said pieces due to the 'New' changes to the classifications of their weapons.. or were the 'Old antique gun Grand-dad used to own' that people found themselves now liable of/with or had inherited.
Citation needed. Else personal opinion.

(15-12-2015 07:15 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  It also doesn't mention the systemic corruption WITHIN the buy back system. Of weapons being handed in, then registered as destroyed only to then be sold back onto the black market for a profit.
Citation needed. Else unfounded hearsay.

(15-12-2015 07:15 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  I am not against "Gun laws", but what I see being presented when the whole "Look at Australia and their paragon of virtue" shtick? It annoys the fek out of me because of the lack of reporting about the ignorance of those here who are making the laws here about guns.
From the overall tone of your comments, I'd be guessing that—broadly speaking at least—you're pro-gun, and probably support the right to carry personal firearms.

You should also know that in the US, of the 61 last mass shootings (4+ deaths) 49 shooters acquired their firearms legally, whilst only 12 shooters acquired them illegally. So much for the right to carry acting as a preventative measure.

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24-12-2015, 12:09 PM (This post was last modified: 24-12-2015 12:12 PM by Azaraith.)
RE: Obama: executive action to expand background checks
(23-12-2015 06:00 AM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(22-12-2015 05:56 PM)Azaraith Wrote:  That's how it works in my state. I buy a gun and in the store they call in and get a bg check and file the 4473. No BS "permits" for specific guns or anything like that. Making it into a system like you describe would make it far more inconvenient, and only for law abiding citizens. I prefer it being simple. Once I get my CHL in I'll be able to walk in and buy any gun no different than a hammer or saw at Lowe's.

Inconvenient? I find having nut cases , mentally unstable people, people with radical ideologies or felons prone to violence running around with legally purchased weapons far more inconvenient for law abiding citizens, then those law abiding citizen spending an hour or so at the licensing office.

Btw, how much time does it take for the store to call in and get your background checked and to file that 4473 and then to get your CHL ? Is it really that much more convenient then the system I described?
Inconvenience only annoys law abiding citizens, criminals aren't buying guns in stores regardless. An hour getting a check done every time is just wasting my time with more meaningless bureaucracy driven by fear-driven arguments like yours. Think about how much you'd love to only be able to buy hammers at the DMV, waiting in line like everyone else. Just pointless waste of time. Guns are just tools. Someone with criminal intent buys black market anyway.

CHL is a one-time thing, then renewal is just a fee in my state. If you only ever bought one gun than it wouldn't make sense, but when you buy several then it's different. I have more than a dozen...

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24-12-2015, 02:45 PM
RE: Obama: executive action to expand background checks
Quote: driven by fear-driven arguments like yours.

If I was afraid, I would get me a gun.......or a dozen........like you.

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24-12-2015, 03:33 PM
RE: Obama: executive action to expand background checks
(24-12-2015 02:45 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
Quote: driven by fear-driven arguments like yours.

If I was afraid, I would get me a gun.......or a dozen........like you.
Or seek to ban them, like you, out of sheer ignorance. You don't know a damn thing about me or why I have mine. Most aren't suitable for defense anyway. WWII bolt actions and lever guns aren't the best for defense, but they're fun to shoot. Hunting, sport shooting, collecting, etc are all legit reasons to have them.

Banning them or reacting with knee-jerk idiotic legislation like you suggest is purely fear based. Scared that you'll be a victim of violence you seek the state to protect you (which they won't) by making buying a gun inconvenient for law abiding citizens while doing nothing to actually solve the stated issue - buying a gun is already illegal if you are a felon or mentally unstable (diagnosed, not your opinion) and committing crimes with the gun is illegal. If you think that it would make you safer you're dead wrong, the police will still take 5min at least to get there and someone with criminal intent will still have a gun.

Your problem is you cannot think beyond that of laws and law abiding citizens and you're clueless about practical realities. If I wanted an untraceable gun for the purposes of crime regardless of my status (clean, but if I did have a felony, mental issue, etc) it wouldn't be hard and I wouldn't be going to a store, buying at a gun show, or giving a fuck about what the law said. I personally know how to acquire full auto guns and I'm not even criminally connected. Those are illegal as fuck, aside from a very few preban guns (with a stamp) that cost $10k+ Do you really think a career criminal intending to commit murder is less capable than I am, a white collar guy with a college education and zero involvement in crime? I don't even smoke weed... lol

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24-12-2015, 04:49 PM (This post was last modified: 24-12-2015 04:54 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Obama: executive action to expand background checks
(24-12-2015 02:45 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
Quote: driven by fear-driven arguments like yours.

If I was afraid, I would get me a gun.......or a dozen........like you.

Thumbsup

That's going here.

#sigh
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24-12-2015, 05:03 PM
RE: Obama: executive action to expand background checks
(24-12-2015 03:33 PM)Azaraith Wrote:  
(24-12-2015 02:45 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  If I was afraid, I would get me a gun.......or a dozen........like you.
Or seek to ban them, like you, out of sheer ignorance. You don't know a damn thing about me or why I have mine. Most aren't suitable for defense anyway. WWII bolt actions and lever guns aren't the best for defense, but they're fun to shoot. Hunting, sport shooting, collecting, etc are all legit reasons to have them.

Banning them or reacting with knee-jerk idiotic legislation like you suggest is purely fear based. Scared that you'll be a victim of violence you seek the state to protect you (which they won't) by making buying a gun inconvenient for law abiding citizens while doing nothing to actually solve the stated issue - buying a gun is already illegal if you are a felon or mentally unstable (diagnosed, not your opinion) and committing crimes with the gun is illegal. If you think that it would make you safer you're dead wrong, the police will still take 5min at least to get there and someone with criminal intent will still have a gun.

Your problem is you cannot think beyond that of laws and law abiding citizens and you're clueless about practical realities. If I wanted an untraceable gun for the purposes of crime regardless of my status (clean, but if I did have a felony, mental issue, etc) it wouldn't be hard and I wouldn't be going to a store, buying at a gun show, or giving a fuck about what the law said. I personally know how to acquire full auto guns and I'm not even criminally connected. Those are illegal as fuck, aside from a very few preban guns (with a stamp) that cost $10k+ Do you really think a career criminal intending to commit murder is less capable than I am, a white collar guy with a college education and zero involvement in crime? I don't even smoke weed... lol

Quote:Scared that you'll be a victim of violence you seek the state to protect you

This seriously made me laugh. Take my word for it or don't , violence doesn't scare me.


Quote:Your problem is you cannot think beyond that of laws and law abiding citizens and you're clueless about practical realities.
Really?
My country with "idiotic legislation" 1.2 murder rate /100 to 120 murders per year.

Your country with "smart" legislation 3.6 murder rate / 14.000 murders per year.

Japan with the strictest gun laws in the world among the developed countries.....0.3 murder rate.

Also....

In the U.S. for 2010, there were 31,513 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 19,308; Homicide 11,015; Accident 600. This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal and non-fatal, increased through 1993, declined to 1999, and has remained relatively constant since. However, firearms injuries remain a leading cause of death in the U.S., particularly among youth (CDC, 2001) (Sherry et al, 2012).
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTO...NSTAT.html



What we do know is that in 2011, there were 14,675 unintentional, non-fatal firearms injuries in the US. Some percentage of these are self-inflicted.

This includes both people who accidently shoot themselves, and people who accidently shoot someone else.

https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-ac...every-year

A new study finds 110 US children die in accidental shootings each year


Quote: buying a gun is already illegal if you are a felon or mentally unstable (diagnosed, not your opinion)

Is that so?

The vast majority of guns used in 15 recent mass shootings, including at least two of the guns used in the San Bernardino attack, were bought legally and with a federal background check. At least eight gunmen had criminal histories or documented mental health problems that did not prevent them from obtaining their weapons.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/....html?_r=0


Quote:you're clueless about practical realities.
One of us is definitely clueless about the practical realities, but it ain't me.

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24-12-2015, 05:32 PM
RE: Obama: executive action to expand background checks

Hey Girly, Azaraith says that I'm scared of being a victim of violence.
Think he has a point? Laugh out load




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24-12-2015, 05:40 PM
RE: Obama: executive action to expand background checks
(24-12-2015 04:49 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(24-12-2015 02:45 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  If I was afraid, I would get me a gun.......or a dozen........like you.

Thumbsup

That's going here.

Of course a girly man would like that.

(24-12-2015 05:03 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(24-12-2015 03:33 PM)Azaraith Wrote:  Or seek to ban them, like you, out of sheer ignorance. You don't know a damn thing about me or why I have mine. Most aren't suitable for defense anyway. WWII bolt actions and lever guns aren't the best for defense, but they're fun to shoot. Hunting, sport shooting, collecting, etc are all legit reasons to have them.

Banning them or reacting with knee-jerk idiotic legislation like you suggest is purely fear based. Scared that you'll be a victim of violence you seek the state to protect you (which they won't) by making buying a gun inconvenient for law abiding citizens while doing nothing to actually solve the stated issue - buying a gun is already illegal if you are a felon or mentally unstable (diagnosed, not your opinion) and committing crimes with the gun is illegal. If you think that it would make you safer you're dead wrong, the police will still take 5min at least to get there and someone with criminal intent will still have a gun.

Your problem is you cannot think beyond that of laws and law abiding citizens and you're clueless about practical realities. If I wanted an untraceable gun for the purposes of crime regardless of my status (clean, but if I did have a felony, mental issue, etc) it wouldn't be hard and I wouldn't be going to a store, buying at a gun show, or giving a fuck about what the law said. I personally know how to acquire full auto guns and I'm not even criminally connected. Those are illegal as fuck, aside from a very few preban guns (with a stamp) that cost $10k+ Do you really think a career criminal intending to commit murder is less capable than I am, a white collar guy with a college education and zero involvement in crime? I don't even smoke weed... lol

Quote:Scared that you'll be a victim of violence you seek the state to protect you

This seriously made me laugh. Take my word for it or don't , violence doesn't scare me.


Quote:Your problem is you cannot think beyond that of laws and law abiding citizens and you're clueless about practical realities.
Really?
My country with "idiotic legislation" 1.2 murder rate /100 to 120 murders per year.

Your country with "smart" legislation 3.6 murder rate / 14.000 murders per year.

Japan with the strictest gun laws in the world among the developed countries.....0.3 murder rate.

Also....

In the U.S. for 2010, there were 31,513 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 19,308; Homicide 11,015; Accident 600. This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal and non-fatal, increased through 1993, declined to 1999, and has remained relatively constant since. However, firearms injuries remain a leading cause of death in the U.S., particularly among youth (CDC, 2001) (Sherry et al, 2012).
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTO...NSTAT.html



What we do know is that in 2011, there were 14,675 unintentional, non-fatal firearms injuries in the US. Some percentage of these are self-inflicted.

This includes both people who accidently shoot themselves, and people who accidently shoot someone else.

https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-ac...every-year

A new study finds 110 US children die in accidental shootings each year


Quote: buying a gun is already illegal if you are a felon or mentally unstable (diagnosed, not your opinion)

Is that so?

The vast majority of guns used in 15 recent mass shootings, including at least two of the guns used in the San Bernardino attack, were bought legally and with a federal background check. At least eight gunmen had criminal histories or documented mental health problems that did not prevent them from obtaining their weapons.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/....html?_r=0


Quote:you're clueless about practical realities.
One of us is definitely clueless about the practical realities, but it ain't me.

More kids are accidentally killed in accidents with cars, ban them. Same with balloons, bags and other asphyxiation accidents. You parrot stats with no context or relevance.

I don't give a fuck about your shit hole country, you're comparing apples and oranges. The stats are largely driven by the drug war, which isn't as hot in tea and crumpets land as in the US. If you're not even American, shut the fuck up about our laws and bugger off.

Those shooters didn't have felonies, if you could read you would have seen that's clearly what I stated. If I actually gave a damn about what you gun control shits think or say I'd spend more than a couple minutes on a response, but you're not worth the time. Your views are as likely to change anything as God showing himself. You shirk personal responsibility and instead try to make things about the state controlling everything. Fuck that mindset.

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24-12-2015, 05:52 PM
RE: Obama: executive action to expand background checks
It is my experience Slowminded that debating American gun nuts is a pointless exercise. They are like fundamentalist xians. There is NO reasoning with them.

While the rest of the world, aside from places like Somalia, laughs at them and their idiotic health system, they put their fingers in their ears and say "I am right! I am American!"

Don't waste your time.

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I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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24-12-2015, 06:01 PM
RE: Obama: executive action to expand background checks
Being wrong is your right, but the arrogance is amusing. I'd actually be debating rather than flippantly responding if I thought Slow or anyone else here actually cared about facts and not just maintaining their anti-gun stance. Unlike you all I've been on both sides of both arguments and the gun control aide really has no ground to stand on. You and people like you display it every time your politicians take stage and rant about doing things about it, while describing everything inaccurately - like the idiot who proclaimed that people would run out of high capacity magazines as the ammo was used.

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