Obama on guns. Viral vid
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07-06-2016, 05:28 AM
RE: Obama on guns. Viral vid
(06-06-2016 07:57 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(06-06-2016 07:25 PM)yakherder Wrote:  For the record, I don't carry a gun because I want to use one. I mean, I'm not saying I don't either, but given the option, I'd rather get a tomahawk or E tool kill and cross that off my bucket list.

Just saying... I'm not one of those crazy gun guys. Hobo

My mom was thinking about concealed carry. I wonder which gun is the best for concealed carry anyway?

The best gun for her to carry is whatever she has the most training with.............

.....

If you don't train - don't carry. If you're fumbling around with a weapon - somebody like me - who knows guns - and can tell if you don't know what the hell you're doing might just take it away from you.

........

If you want to train - it's always suggested that you carry the most firepower you can fully utilize. If your mom has small hands - she's not going to want to carry a Smith and Wesson model 29 with a 6 inch barrel.......

Personal preference have a lot to do with what you carry. Portability is also a major factor. You don't want something heavy. I carried a Walther PPK/S for a while - a .380 in stainless steel. While small enough - it was heavy. A bit too much to stick in a pocket. Also - .380 is an anemic cartridge. Ammo got it wasn't cheap either. (and is a pain to reload). There's also the reliability issues of an auto vs a revolver. (sure today's autos are way better than yesterdays -- but, I've still seen issues with far more autos than revolvers).

My personal favorite - and I've carried it daily for over 14 years - is a Smith and Wesson 331. A 32 H&R magnum Airlite revolver (it's a odd aluminum alloy and a titanium cylinder) - with CT lasergrips. I got one for each of my sisters as well. I don't recommend 32 H&R to most people- as the ammo is hard to find and expensive (about a buck a bullet). I reload ammo - so it's not really a factor for me....

The only time it's been pulled -- twice - was for dispatching a not yet dead, roadkilled deer ---- and only after getting permission from the officer who wrote the roadkill tag for it... With the lasergrips - you can put a bullet into a 1 inch hole - every time at 20 feet - and it's a 90 grain lead bullet at 1100 fps (screamingly fast for a 1 7/8 inch barrel).

.......................................

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07-06-2016, 08:33 AM
RE: Obama on guns. Viral vid
(06-06-2016 11:46 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(06-06-2016 10:58 PM)Chas Wrote:  They are in Massachusetts. For instance, it is illegal to carry a double-edged blade longer than 1.5". You can own it, but you can't carry it.

Yes but anyone can buy one, gun buying laws are way more strict than sword buying laws. Swords do not even require a background check. Same as throwing stars. My point being there are other lethal, designed to kill options other than guns but people are only worried about guns instead of the people that use them. Fine to regulate them but only doing that is not going to dramatically reduce violence because there is always another option.

A weapon you can't carry outside of your home has pretty limited utility.
There is no permit to carry a sword, so that regulation is stronger than that for guns.

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07-06-2016, 08:37 AM
RE: Obama on guns. Viral vid
(06-06-2016 11:46 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(06-06-2016 10:58 PM)Chas Wrote:  They are in Massachusetts. For instance, it is illegal to carry a double-edged blade longer than 1.5". You can own it, but you can't carry it.

Yes but anyone can buy one, gun buying laws are way more strict than sword buying laws. Swords do not even require a background check. Same as throwing stars. My point being there are other lethal, designed to kill options other than guns but people are only worried about guns instead of the people that use them. Fine to regulate them but only doing that is not going to dramatically reduce violence because there is always another option.
A sword is an ancient killing device that is far less efficient than a firearm. Statistically speaking it is not really a problem to worry about. But yeah, you can't just walk around with large blades either.

My biggest thing is the detachment from the killing process with a gun. A sword kill requires a strong arm motion or sometimes a full body motion (with follow through) and you have to physically feel your blade penetrate and slice through your victim. That's an entirely different experience than squeezing a trigger. I personally believe the ease of killing promotes killing in a unique way. i.e. I think many people who use guns to kill would NOT use a different tool that required more effort (and was slower, and was less likely to be successful) if they did not have a gun available to them. Of course this is just opinion.

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07-06-2016, 08:40 AM
RE: Obama on guns. Viral vid
(07-06-2016 05:28 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(06-06-2016 07:57 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  My mom was thinking about concealed carry. I wonder which gun is the best for concealed carry anyway?

The best gun for her to carry is whatever she has the most training with.............

.....

If you don't train - don't carry. If you're fumbling around with a weapon - somebody like me - who knows guns - and can tell if you don't know what the hell you're doing might just take it away from you.

........

If you want to train - it's always suggested that you carry the most firepower you can fully utilize. If your mom has small hands - she's not going to want to carry a Smith and Wesson model 29 with a 6 inch barrel.......

Personal preference have a lot to do with what you carry. Portability is also a major factor. You don't want something heavy. I carried a Walther PPK/S for a while - a .380 in stainless steel. While small enough - it was heavy. A bit too much to stick in a pocket. Also - .380 is an anemic cartridge. Ammo got it wasn't cheap either. (and is a pain to reload). There's also the reliability issues of an auto vs a revolver. (sure today's autos are way better than yesterdays -- but, I've still seen issues with far more autos than revolvers).

My personal favorite - and I've carried it daily for over 14 years - is a Smith and Wesson 331. A 32 H&R magnum Airlite revolver (it's a odd aluminum alloy and a titanium cylinder) - with CT lasergrips. I got one for each of my sisters as well. I don't recommend 32 H&R to most people- as the ammo is hard to find and expensive (about a buck a bullet). I reload ammo - so it's not really a factor for me....

The only time it's been pulled -- twice - was for dispatching a not yet dead, roadkilled deer ---- and only after getting permission from the officer who wrote the roadkill tag for it... With the lasergrips - you can put a bullet into a 1 inch hole - every time at 20 feet - and it's a 90 grain lead bullet at 1100 fps (screamingly fast for a 1 7/8 inch barrel).

The .380 isn't all that anemic - it's in the same ballpark as .38 Special.
I sometimes carry a .380 - a stainless Sig P230. It is noticeably heavier that the same piston in blued steel. Consider

Another carry gun is the Ruger SP101 in .327 Federal - lots of punch, small package.

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07-06-2016, 09:01 AM
RE: Obama on guns. Viral vid
(07-06-2016 08:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-06-2016 05:28 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The best gun for her to carry is whatever she has the most training with.............

.....

If you don't train - don't carry. If you're fumbling around with a weapon - somebody like me - who knows guns - and can tell if you don't know what the hell you're doing might just take it away from you.

........

If you want to train - it's always suggested that you carry the most firepower you can fully utilize. If your mom has small hands - she's not going to want to carry a Smith and Wesson model 29 with a 6 inch barrel.......

Personal preference have a lot to do with what you carry. Portability is also a major factor. You don't want something heavy. I carried a Walther PPK/S for a while - a .380 in stainless steel. While small enough - it was heavy. A bit too much to stick in a pocket. Also - .380 is an anemic cartridge. Ammo got it wasn't cheap either. (and is a pain to reload). There's also the reliability issues of an auto vs a revolver. (sure today's autos are way better than yesterdays -- but, I've still seen issues with far more autos than revolvers).

My personal favorite - and I've carried it daily for over 14 years - is a Smith and Wesson 331. A 32 H&R magnum Airlite revolver (it's a odd aluminum alloy and a titanium cylinder) - with CT lasergrips. I got one for each of my sisters as well. I don't recommend 32 H&R to most people- as the ammo is hard to find and expensive (about a buck a bullet). I reload ammo - so it's not really a factor for me....

The only time it's been pulled -- twice - was for dispatching a not yet dead, roadkilled deer ---- and only after getting permission from the officer who wrote the roadkill tag for it... With the lasergrips - you can put a bullet into a 1 inch hole - every time at 20 feet - and it's a 90 grain lead bullet at 1100 fps (screamingly fast for a 1 7/8 inch barrel).

The .380 isn't all that anemic - it's in the same ballpark as .38 Special.
I sometimes carry a .380 - a stainless Sig P230. It is noticeably heavier that the same piston in blued steel. Consider

Another carry gun is the Ruger SP101 in .327 Federal - lots of punch, small package.

327 Federal is a stretched .32 H+R mag..... If you think H+R mag is expensive -- wait til you buy .327 Federal --- if you can find it... I have the feeling it's going to go the way of .357 Maximum.... (Huh?? .357 what?? -- Exactly)..

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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07-06-2016, 09:08 AM
RE: Obama on guns. Viral vid
(07-06-2016 09:01 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(07-06-2016 08:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  The .380 isn't all that anemic - it's in the same ballpark as .38 Special.
I sometimes carry a .380 - a stainless Sig P230. It is noticeably heavier that the same piston in blued steel. Consider

Another carry gun is the Ruger SP101 in .327 Federal - lots of punch, small package.

327 Federal is a stretched .32 H+R mag..... If you think H+R mag is expensive -- wait til you buy .327 Federal --- if you can find it... I have the feeling it's going to go the way of .357 Maximum.... (Huh?? .357 what?? -- Exactly)..

There are a couple of places around that stock it and I have several boxes of it ($25/box of 50). Also, the gun will shoot .32 H&R, .32 S&W Long, and .32 Long Colt.

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07-06-2016, 09:11 AM
RE: Obama on guns. Viral vid
(07-06-2016 09:08 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-06-2016 09:01 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  327 Federal is a stretched .32 H+R mag..... If you think H+R mag is expensive -- wait til you buy .327 Federal --- if you can find it... I have the feeling it's going to go the way of .357 Maximum.... (Huh?? .357 what?? -- Exactly)..

There are a couple of places around that stock it and I have several boxes of it ($25/box of 50). Also, the gun will shoot .32 H&R, .32 S&W Long, and .32 Long Colt.

Take the following advice --- if you don't reload -- pick up as much as you can afford.... That's fairly cheap --- right now....

When .32 H+R mag first came on the market (I think it was around 1985) it wasn't that expensive.

Now - the only company that makes it is Federal --- and it's only made once a year in limited quantities... At some point, they'll quit making lots of the .327 and the price will double - at least.....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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07-06-2016, 09:15 AM (This post was last modified: 07-06-2016 09:33 AM by Mr. Boston.)
RE: Obama on guns. Viral vid
I'm a liberal, generally, and to me the "agenda" on guns has never been about coming to "git" them out of the hands of law abiding citizens, it's about trying to find common sense solutions to the epidemic of gun violence, primarily in urban areas. Many Western countries have banned certain types of guns or even ALL guns for private ownership and I've never met a liberal, other than someone on the EXTREME fringe, who advocates that kind of approach in the US. But I think the President makes a great point in this video - the NRA has done such an effective job of branding anything having to do with guns as an attack on the 2nd Amendment that even studying the problem is seen as tyranny. The end result is that any measure or law aimed at minimizing the impact of gun violence comes not from a position of having useful facts and information as its backbone, but coming more out of a knee-jerk reaction to difficult circumstances like the mass killing of kindergartners, for example. Personally I think the first step to making worthwhile gains in fixing the gun problem, like ANY problem, ought to be opening it up for inquiry, studying the statistics, studying the capabilities of weapons, studying the circumstances and situations under which gun violence is most likely to occur, studying the psychological profiles of the people who shoot-up kindergartens and college campuses. That way laws or regulations can better target the people who are most likely to offend instead of harassing law-abiding citizens. I'd like to think, free-thinkers as we are on this page, that regardless of our politics we can agree that ignoring a problem or refusing to study it is not the best approach. That's the realm of indoctrination and not a useful tool for getting things done.

I've often thought that the best approach to making guns and gun usage safer might be through a system that combines government regulation with private insurance interests - you can't say it hasn't worked with cars, as the President alluded to. Register guns and require insurance. If you're found with a gun you can't provide proof of insurance for, or one that's registered to and insured by someone else - 5 years in prison. If you're caught doing it 3 times, that's it, life behind bars. The insurance industry has done a phenomenal job figuring out who the riskiest drivers are and charging them accordingly - let them have a crack at gun owners too; and let there be financial incentives to safer guns and safer gun storage. Don't FORCE anyone to use gun locks or finger print technology or locked gun storage in the home, but provide financial incentives to those who do whereby the costs of making your guns safer to store and operate are essentially free. Hell maybe you can even MAKE money by making your arsenal safer. Governments give all kinds of rebates and tax breaks to people who go solar - my wife and I took advantage of that ourselves. Do the same thing with guns. Don't BAN automatic weapons in inner cities, just make the cost of insuring them prohibitive; like driving a Hummer in London. Liberals should like this because the overall effect is likely to be a push of the whole gun culture to make itself safer. And in the event of horrible events like Sandy Hook at LEAST there may be some small comfort to be had in the fact that the families of dead 6-year-olds will be compensated. Conservatives should like this idea because responsible law-abiding citizens using guns for sport, hunting, and personal protection will have no real downside, the less risky they are as a gun owner the less they'll have to pay; PLUS the private insurance industry and the "free market" get to be a big part of the solution.
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07-06-2016, 09:23 AM
RE: Obama on guns. Viral vid
(07-06-2016 09:15 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  I'm a liberal, generally, and to me the "agenda" on guns has never been about coming to "git" them out of the hands of law abiding citizens, it's about trying to find common sense solutions to the epidemic of gun violence, primarily in urban areas. Many Western countries have banned certain types of guns or even ALL guns for private ownership and I've never met a liberal, other than someone on the EXTREME fringe, who advocates that kind of approach in the US. But I think the President makes a great point in this video - the NRA has done such an effective job of branding anything having to do with guns as an attack on the 2nd Amendment that even studying the problem is seen as tyranny. The end result is that any measure or law aimed at minimizing the impact of gun violence comes not from a position of having useful facts and information as its backbone, but coming more out of a knee-jerk reaction to difficult circumstances like the mass killing of kindergartners, for example. Personally I think the first step to making worthwhile gains in fixing the gun problem, like ANY problem, ought to be opening it up for inquiry, studying the statistics, studying the capabilities of weapons, studying the circumstances and situations under which gun violence is most likely to occur, studying the psychological profiles of the people who shoot-up kindergartens and college campuses. That way laws or regulations can better target the people who are most likely to offend instead of harassing law-abiding citizens. I'd like to think, free-thinkers as we are on this page, that regardless of our politics we can agree that ignoring a problem or refusing to study it is not the best approach. That's the realm of indoctrination and not a useful tool for getting things done.

I've often thought that the best approach to making guns and gun usage safer might be through a system that combines government regulation with private insurance interests - you can't say it hasn't worked with cars, as the President alluded to. Register guns and require insurance. If you're found with a gun you can't provide proof of insurance for - 5 years in prison. If you're caught doing it 3 times, that's it, life behind bars. The insurance industry has done a phenomenal job figuring out who the riskiest drivers are and charging them accordingly - let them have a crack at gun owners too; and let there be financial incentives to safer guns and safer gun storage. Don't FORCE anyone to use gun locks or finger print technology or locked gun storage in the home, but provide financial incentives to those who do whereby the costs of making your guns safer to store and operate are essentially free. Governments give all kinds of rebates and tax breaks to people who go solar - my wife and I took advantage of that ourselves. Do the same thing with guns. Don't BAN automatic weapons in inner cities, just make the cost of insuring them prohibitive; like driving a Hummer in London. Liberals should like this because the overall effect is likely to be a push of the whole gun culture to make itself safer. And in the event of horrible events like Sandy Hook at LEAST there may be some small comfort to be had in the fact that the families of dead 6-year-olds will be compensated. Conservatives should like this idea because responsible law-abiding citizens using guns for sport, hunting, and personal protection will have no real downside, the less risky they are as a gun owner the less they'll have to pay; PLUS the private insurance industry and the "free market" get to be a big part of the solution.

You're still cutting down the wrong tree...................

...

Criminals don't register their guns, and aren't likely to insure them either..........

.....

Why is it - that the gun control advocates can't see it's a PEOPLE problem????

.......

Lock up people who misuse guns. Don't ever let them own them again - and make it a felony to sell to anyone who isn't legal to own a firearm.......

Make the criminals have a big "NOT ALLOWED TO OWN/POSSESS FIREARMS" on their I.D. - and make every firearm seller check I.D..................


..

Let's try controlling the problem children for once, huh???


Or is it just easier to control the people who OBEY the laws? (and weren't the problem in the first place..)

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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07-06-2016, 09:24 AM
RE: Obama on guns. Viral vid
(06-06-2016 09:56 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(06-06-2016 09:30 PM)jabeady Wrote:  Dennis Rodeman?



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Yup
I'm in Lansing, too. A mile south of the airport, off of Waverly.

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